BOAT-TAILED Gas Check Update/Teaser

[w30wcf]

HollowPoint,
Great idea! Very Inventive!

Reminds me of an elderly gentleman who had a B&M 193 Boat Tailed mold. He shot cast bullet silhouette wih us up until the mid 1990's until he passed on. He used that bullet in his 30-06 with slow burning powder and corn meal to act as a gas check. He did pretty well with it. As I recall the boat tail seemed to be patterned after the 173 gr service bullet which I believe had a 9 degree boat tail.

Best of luck with your future experiments.....

w30wcf

[HollowPoint]

HollowPoint,
Great idea! Very Inventive!

Reminds me of an elderly gentleman who had a B&M 193 Boat Tailed mold. He shot cast bullet silhouette wih us up until the mid 1990's until he passed on. He used that bullet in his 30-06 with slow burning powder and corn meal to act as a gas check. He did pretty well with it. As I recall the boat tail seemed to be patterned after the 173 gr service bullet which I believe had a 9 degree boat tail.

Best of luck with your future experiments.....

w30wcf

Thanks for the encouragement. I looked up the B&M 193 Boat Tailed mold that you mentioned. That's a good looking bullet. I'd never heard of it until now.

It looks like a bullet design that may be worth the effort to make up a set of Boat-Tailed Gas-Checked dies for. If you could mount a Gas-Check on that bullet you wouldn't need any filler.

I have yet to get to the range to test my latest batch of loaded ammo. I think I may have another day off next Wednesday. I'm hoping I can get away then.

Thanks again.

HollowPoint

[tweigenant]

Thanks for the encouragement. I looked up the B&M 193 Boat Tailed mold that you mentioned. That's a good looking bullet. I'd never heard of it until now.

It looks like a bullet design that may be worth the effort to make up a set of Boat-Tailed Gas-Checked dies for. If you could mount a Gas-Check on that bullet you wouldn't need any filler.

I have yet to get to the range to test my latest batch of loaded ammo. I think I may have another day off next Wednesday. I'm hoping I can get away then.

Thanks again.

HollowPoint

Hey HollowPoint, where have you been? Have you made any progress with this adventure? Been a couple months without any update, or did you just abandon the project?

Thanks,

Tom

[HollowPoint]

Hi Tom:

To answer your question; No I haven't abandoned this project. I just considered it a success already. That last batch of test bullets I mentioned in my previous post is still waiting to be shot.

Between now and that previous post I've had to deal with debilitating allergies that wouldn't allow me to go outdoors for any length of time so I was basically home-bound during that time.

To keep from going crazy being cooped up all that time I bought an air rifle so I could at least shoot in my back yard. Then I started tinkering around with that new air rifle, trying to make it shoot faster and harder so, I've been sort of wrapped up in modifying this new toy.

It's a semi-new model to the market so I was unable to find alot of information about it. This lead me to start a new Umarex Octane air rifle users group in order to try to attract folk that had some experience with the internal workings of this air gun but, I've mostly attracted guys like myself who were also looking for information about this air rifle.

In regard to the Boat-Tail-Gas Checks, this last series of test that I made that batch of test bullets for was just intended to check for accuracy at longer ranges. I already know they'll work. In my previous test I was able to get 1 moa with some loads and slightly larger groups with others. With the right load I think I can do better.

I'm feeling a whole lot better now so once I get my air rifle mods completed I can kill two birds with one stone and take them both to the range for testing.

Thank for the inquiry.

HollowPoint

[HawkCreek]

I just saw this, Wow! I've got a lot of reading to do here.

[tweigenant]

Hi Tom:

To answer your question; No I haven't abandoned this project. I just considered it a success already. That last batch of test bullets I mentioned in my previous post is still waiting to be shot.

Between now and that previous post I've had to deal with debilitating allergies that wouldn't allow me to go outdoors for any length of time so I was basically home-bound during that time.

To keep from going crazy being cooped up all that time I bought an air rifle so I could at least shoot in my back yard. Then I started tinkering around with that new air rifle, trying to make it shoot faster and harder so, I've been sort of wrapped up in modifying this new toy.

It's a semi-new model to the market so I was unable to find alot of information about it. This lead me to start a new Umarex Octane air rifle users group in order to try to attract folk that had some experience with the internal workings of this air gun but, I've mostly attracted guys like myself who were also looking for information about this air rifle.

In regard to the Boat-Tail-Gas Checks, this last series of test that I made that batch of test bullets for was just intended to check for accuracy at longer ranges. I already know they'll work. In my previous test I was able to get 1 moa with some loads and slightly larger groups with others. With the right load I think I can do better.

I'm feeling a whole lot better now so once I get my air rifle mods completed I can kill two birds with one stone and take them both to the range for testing.

Thank for the inquiry.

HollowPoint

Good to hear from you, HP! Glad you haven't given up on perfecting (or not) the project. I hope the success continues as it is a cool idea with great benefits for rifle casters/shooters.

Airguns are my second love and I have been deeply involved with them for the last 15 or so years. I can't remember if we can post links to other sites on here but I can link you to the best airgun website I have found. What is the link to the new site you started?

Take care,

Tom

[HollowPoint]

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/u...tions/messages


HollowPoint

[CSLFiero]

I just discovered this thread and after realizing i have an account, logged in for the second time ever because i can't withhold praising your work. I hope to god it makes you some money because i think you could get a whole new group of people into bullet casting if what you've made here ever becomes commercially available gear.

Edit: and, no offense to anyone here, but this work deserves recognition beyond the scope of this thread or even this website.

[HollowPoint]

Wow; thanks for the kind word. I appreciate it. This project was just intended to see if such a Gas-Check was possible. It turns out that it is possible.

Bullet casters are generally a pretty traditional bunch so I really don't expect any kind of following other than those like myself who try to make things work better; even though they're perfectly fine just as they are. Not to many bullet casters are into the kind of long range shooting that could be benefited by a Boat-Tailed Cast-Bullet wearing a Boat-Tailed Gas-Check.

HollowPoint

[Highwaller]

Hollow Point:
Just want to say I'm one of those nuts that likes to lob boolits considerably farther
than most. The BT idea is something I've been thinking about for some time.
This is the first thread I've come across on the subject.
My dilemma is I want to do it with the .444 Marlin, and I have neither
the equipment nor the skills to do it myself. Also, I don't know if it's practical
to attempt it without changing the barrel on the rifle. The one that's on there
is a Badger 1 in 26 twist and wonder if it would stabilize a boolit long enough
to gain an appreciable increase in BC.
Any comments will be most appreciated.
Highwaller

[CSLFiero]

This project was just intended to see if such a Gas-Check was possible. It turns out that it is possible... ...I really don't expect any kind of following other than those like myself who try to make things work better; even though they're perfectly fine.

Perhaps then you should consider patenting and selling your patent. Your proof of concept can evolve much bigger and faster if a lot more people could have their hands on it.

Of course there will be skepticism amongst the big boys of bullet casting. Some might even consider buying your patent only to shuffle it into a deep dark drawer forever. But industries that don't evolve wither on the vine. Recent scares have made the industry some good money, but how many molds and dies can you sell to the same people over and over to? New customers are always needed. I want to buy your stuff, not "previous gen"

[HollowPoint]

In regard to possibly trying to apply a Boat-Tail to a 444 Marlin cast bullet, the only way to find out if it will work would be to try it and see. If you don't have the machinery to do it yourself there are ways around that. There are some excellent machinist here on this site that may be willing to help you with this project. If go about it by just adding a Top-Plate with the Boat-Tail bevel on it like I show in some of my pics, you can use an existing bullet mold without completely altering it. If it doesn't work as you'd like you simply remove the Top-Plate and your mold is back to its factory specs.

I'm not sure of your present cast bullet configuration is but, generally speaking if it's already a long and heavy bullet, adding a Boat-Tail to the end will make it slightly longer and heavier. If the added length and weight destabilizes your bullet, the fix for this might be to increase the velocity if possible to compensate for the potential loss of velocity by adding the weight of the Boat-Tailed end. Another possible fix would be by decreasing the weight by adding or increasing the dimensions of a hollow point cavity. This might be enough to bring the velocities back up to where the bullet will stabilize again.

A 444 marlin is a pretty fair sized slug to begin with. By removing enough material from the nose-end via a hollow point cavity that approximates the weight you added on the tail end via the Boat-Tail extension, you might very well end up with a bullet that has some long-range potential. Another idea is to go to a shorter bullet in that same caliber that shoots well out of your gun and add the Boat-Tail to it. That might be the idea compromise to give you a stabilized long-range bullet.

Another factor to consider is that there are different configurations of Boat-Tail shapes. The optimum Boat-Tail configuration for the 444 Marlin may be such that it doesn't add enough weight to your bullet to destabilize it at all. You need to do some research on what might be the optimum Boat-Tail configuration for your slugs. I'd simply use the same shape and angle as those found on the LeverEvolution jacketed slugs to begin with. If that didn't seem to work out I'd then do the trial and error thing until I found the optimum shape, length and angle.

As far as trying to patent this idea goes; I thought of doing that and I may still do so once I get a little more testing done. I too think that this idea has merit. I confirm this to myself each time I go to the sporting goods store and see the prices on all those copper jacketed Boat-Tailed bullets. Mine are way cheaper.

HollowPoint

[ksJoe]

As far as trying to patent this idea goes; I though of doing that and I may still do so once I get a little more testing done. I too think that this idea has merit. I confirm this to myself each time I go to the sporting goods store and see the prices on all those copper jacketed Boat-Tailed Gas-Checked bullets. Mine are way cheaper.

Don't think much longer, you started this thread about 10.5 months ago.

From here:

The U.S. patent law system is among the most lenient in the world with regards to prior disclosure of your invention. It allows you to publish your invention or offer it for sale prior to filing a patent application, provided that you file your patent application within one year of the publication or offer for sale. If you wait longer than one year, your patent rights are forfeited. The one-year period is a "grace period."

There are filing fees, but IIRC, simpler ones can be done for just a couple hundred or so. You can fill out the paperwork yourself, without a layer. But if you want to do it, you better start now so its filed within the 1 year grace period.

[Highwaller]

Thanx for the reply. Tho I've never seen a boat tail on a .430 dia. bullet, your suggestion to try the same shapes/angles is something I hadn't considered. I think I'll take a good long look at the .50 cal. bullets.
Highwaller

[rszkutak]

HollowPoint your inforamtion is invaludable to me. This is EXACTLY what I am looking to do in a 175 gr bullet for my .308.

I'd love to pick your brain on this, what part of AZ do you live in???

[davidheart]

Mind = Blown

[Artful]

Hollow Point your work does deserve recognition - pushing the limits of technology is mostly a thankless job unless you count self satisfaction.

If any of you Arizona casters are up too it...
March 29 - Arizona casters get together...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...992-Tucson-GTG