The 32-20 WCF Revisited

[9.3X62AL]

I started work with the 32-20 again today. I've had the good fortune to line up molds #311316, #311419, and 313631 for this caliber, and I'm starting with #311316 sized at .312", which is about .0005" larger than its throat. Seated with the case mouth even with the bottom of the front drive band, the cartridges load through the magazine smoothly and just barely kiss the rifling origin. Just a slight hint of a crimp is applied.

First load will be 11.5 grains of Reloder-7, which is +/- black powder velocity and full density. 50 of those will compete with 25 each of a couple other powders, type and weight undecided at this time. This first load is likely around 1150-1200 FPS, so I'm thinking one load at 1300-1350 and another at 1450-1500 might be nice. A Tuesday test drive is anticipated.

[Bret4207]

Al- IMHO you have the single , all around best boolit for the 32WCF in the 311316. GC's are a pain, but worth it with this design. If I can remember I'll try to find my data I used for my Savage 23 bolt gun. Had wonderful grouping and devastating rsults on prairie dog size red squirrels.

[9.3X62AL]

Bret et al--

That 80%+ meplat on the #311316 will likely whack the daylights out of whatever critter encounters it. I hope to be able to wring some accuracy out of this rifle with cast boolits. The Mountain Molds plain-base flat nose just did wonders for the revolvers--hopefully, these Lymans will follow suit in the CCL.

A short note about the Starline brass in this caliber--they don't appear to be much thicker than the usual W-W/R-P stuff, but just the slight strengthening makes a world of difference. MUCH better brass than the mainstream makers produce, for sure.

[9.3X62AL]

I ran 100 rounds of #311316 sized at .312" using 3 powders--10.0 x 2400, 11.0 x IMR-4227, and 11.5 x RL-7. None of the results were spectacular, but the 2400 and 4227 loads weren't real bad. The RL-7 loads were quite forgettable. I used small rifle primers, so I think next trip we'll use small pistol primers in these dinky cases--and see if the castings do better sized at .313". Dunno if there's enough diameter to support that sizing, though.

Before these casings get processed, I'm going to run some of the Lyman #313631's from the mold. These should drop fatter, and I may give them a try alongside the 311316's.

[Sky C.]

Hello Deputy Al-

Keep the updates coming! I have a Browning 53 that I'm just starting to work on loads for. It's currently wearing the original sights and that in itself is a challenge for me. My initial playing around showed best results with charges of 2400 also - running in the 1650fps range has given best groups to date (best groups were running 1/2" horiz. x 1 1/4" vert.). Need to play more with charge weight to see if running faster or slower will settle the vertical stringing - though again - that could be sight picture.

Groups with other powders were going over 2 " - by the way my testing is at 50yds.

Have tried:
2400 - best so far
AA 9 - lousy
W-296 - lousy
SR 4759 - poor
AA 1680 - will test more
Blue Dot - a slow lot I gave up on since it was so far off from the load data I had.
AA 7 - poor

Bullets tried are a Mountain Mould design I had Dan cut - GC design going about 110gr., .3115" (smaller than I'd hoped). Lee Soup can - not as good as the MM.

Have recently acquired 311316 and 3008 moulds that I need to test.

I think I need to try Beagling the moulds to go to a larger dia. to see if that may be where some of the accuracy is hiding. I've got no leading going on - but I think the chamber will accept larger than the .3115" which is as large as they drop now.

Good luck with your efforts-

Sky C.

[9.3X62AL]

The 1894CCL has the buckhorn sights on it, and while they are certainly a useful system for hunting--they lack precision for target shooting work, especially since my 50 year old eyes are already stepping to the plate with an 0-2 count before the first pitch gets thrown.

The 32-20 rifle deal will be a parallel project with the 25-20 cast boolit masochism already in progress. I have some Remington small pistol primers that have (until now) had only one mission in life--to light off 32 ACP loads in an old Steyr 1908 pistol with weak firing pin strike, since the Remcaps are softest and least brisant of all the pistol primers out there. Lots of comments on these calibers indicate that small rifles primers may be too much of a good thing in the hyphenated Winchester "little rounds".

The powder picture is a little fuzzy for me in both calibers. 2400 is kind of a "go-to" powder for me in a LOT of cast boolit applications, and early indications are that it shows promise. I did a "what the hell" lot of 15 rounds in 25-20 using 8.0 x WC-820, Dacron, and Lyman #257420, and they shot VERY well......naturally, the lot I had the least number of did the best work that day. That load will get re-visited with a couple others and the lighter primers.

In the 32-20, I'm thinking the revolver-level loads might need more pressure for the powders to burn efficiently, to that 1600 FPS level you're discussing. A taste more diameter, a bit less primer brisance, and a bit more powder might do the trick in both calibers.

[JSH]

Al, I have played with the 32-20, aka 30-20 for a few years with various bullets. I had used, notice the "had" as in pastense, 110 grain-190 grain full length gas checked bullets in this. I have some load data that was done by Sierra in the late 80's or early 90's for more modern type guns, .308 bores. This may give some insight to powders and loads for you?
Once I switched to cast I didn't know where to go on loads, so I just backed off a grain from a proven load. I am suprised that the AA#9 was not working for one of the above gents. It is still one of my better loads.
I was looking for a really light load with a medium weight bullet,311410 in my case. I couldn't make up my mind what to do. Looked at a lot of data for some what similar calibers, with 357 mag or 38+P loads being a max. Well a fellow had mentioned in passing somthing about 3-3.5 grains of bullseye being a dandy for 38's. So I loaded a few with 3.0 of Bullseye and a few with 3.5. I have not shot any off of the bags yet, but initial results were what I was after in the recoil department with a pistol. I would rank them right around 22mag or less in recoil.

NOTE!!! I WOULD NOT RECOMEND THESE IN A RIFLE. As you may lodge a bullet.

I still have some fooling to do with this one. Figure I will go no more than 4.0.
Also I have used some WC820, using AA#9 data. Results were fair but not up to what I have come to expect from AA#9.

I passed up an old tubular magazined bolt action 32-20 Savage years ago, am still kicking myself.
Jeff

[9.3X62AL]

I got the Lyman #313631's poured today, along with a few other castings I was running short of. These fell from the blocks at .313", and look like a real nice boolit for both the 32-20 rifle and the 32 Magnum revolver. SOMETHING needs to prompt those 311316's to do the right things. I haven't run any of the 311419's yet--those may have to wait a while.

(I owe a couple folks some of the RCBS 6mm 95's, and those got poured today too. They will get sent next week while I'm restricted to indoor activity due to some medical stuff.)

[omgb]

I have a Browning Model 53 that i just picked up the other day. I just can't imagine how the Italians are getting $1,100 for a '73 knock off when one can get this little beaute for under $800 unfired. I mounted a Marbel Tang sight and will be testing my loads tomorrow. I have WW cases and some Remington cases from 25 years ago as well as some modern loades from Black Hills. In the hand loads I put 9.5 and 9.0 grains of 2400 under a Laser Cast bullet (tapered plain base) I used small pistol primers as I had a bunch on hand. As a side note, I also found a stash of once fired WRC 32 WCF brass. Talk about thin case mouths.......

I also have a Lyman mould that drops a gas check bullet (311316) but my Hornady 30 cal GC don't want to fit. Is there a trick I don't know about?

[omgb]

Thought I'd add one more thing. I am using 2400 also for two reasons. First, Elmer keith swore by it in the 32-20. I think his load was 10 grns under a 115 grain Lyman sized 113 without a GC. So, I figured I'd start there. Second, I have two pounds of the stuff. I was up in MT last week and bought it for $16.00 a pound. Here in the PRK it's about $22.00 per lb. I could have gotten Unique for the same price but Unique always seems wo burn so dirty. Any way, that's my reasoning. However, none of the new manuals list 2400 as a choice in the 32-20. Go figure.

[moodyholler]

I shoot 8.0 grains 2400 in mine with a 115 PB bullet and it shoots well in my antique 1892 Winchester. But my 1889 Marlin and Hopkins & Allen Single Shot will not shoot the same load. I am still experimenting with them. moodyholler

[9.3X62AL]

Alliant 2400 has become just about my most-used "go-to" powder for cast boolit shooting, both in handguns and rifles. I've used almost 3# of it since January!

I have the same problem with Hornady checks and Lyman shanks in 30 caliber, and with Hornady 25 caliber checks/Lyman #257420. I've found punches that slightly flare the "lip" of the check just a tiny bit, and the problem is resolved. The 30 calibers get a "tap" from an old Lee Loader 38 Special case mouth flaring punch, and the 25's get the same treatment from the round end of the RCBS 338 neck expander spud. It doesn't take much of a whack to get the flare you need.

[brian]

I've been using the Lyman 311316 in my Marlin 1894CL in 32-20 along with the Hornady 85 gr. XTP/HP for varminting. Both work well. My CB load is 15 gr. of H110 , WSR primer, RP brass. CB sized 0.314". Gray's #24 lube or LBT Blue Soft lube. Hornady gas check. Bullets are cast of Linotype and measure right at 22 on the BHN scale. If using WW I'd drop this load down to 12 gr. of H110 but keep everything else the same. If I recall the 15 gr. load clocked out in the 2000 - 2200 fps range, I'll have to check the notes. The jacketed load is the Hornady 85 gr. XTP/HP over 18 gr. of H110 and the WSR primer and RP brass. about 2400 fps if I recall, again I'd have to check my notes to be sure. Good varmint load as the bullet is driven about 3X it's design speed so it fragments easily. No richochets. Good luck. I'm finding the 32-20 to be one of the more fun calibers to plink with. Jim T has some silent but deadly loads in his articles on the 32-20. With factory or equivalent light loads the noise is not too much, nor is the recoil so it's fun to plink with. Even with the full throttle stuff it isn't nearly as obnoxious as most of the rest of the centerfire calibers in terms of muzzle blast and noise. The worst part about the 32-20 is not being able to shoot it as much as I'd like to, and Lyman not making a 4 cavity 311316.
best regards,
brian

[omgb]

Went out this A.M. and fired a few rounds and here are the results:

Lgt wnds from over the shoulder, temp 85-90 rh 76%+

I cleaned the bore and fired 10 shot strings with about 1 minute between shots. Black Hills 115grn FPL 1. 1132, 2. 971.3, 3. 1126, 4. 1010, 5. 979.3, 6. 990.3, 7. 969.7, 8. 1003, 9. 985.7, 10. 968.2
Group size at 100 yards was 2.5" with one flyer. rcoil and nose were virtually non-existant

I cleaned the bore again and fired this string: WW cases, CCI small pistol primers, 9.4 grns Alliant 2400, 115 laser Cast Lead bullet (tapered base)
1. 1713, 2. 1397, 3. 1667, 4. 1673, 5. 1671, 6.1674, 7. 1666, 8. 1652, 9. 1683, 10. 1654

Groups size at 100 yards was 10" or worse. no flyers, just a whole bunch of mostly lateral dispersment with maybe 3.5 inches of vertical dispersement.

My guess is that tapered bullet is just not making it. 2400 was very consistant though, far more so than the Black Hills loads yet it just wouldn't group. Cases extracted well and the primers were still a long way from being flattened.

For those just tuned in, the rifle is a Browning Model 53 with marbel tang sights. These were the very first rounds fired through it. I felt kinda bad deflowering this little beauty but dang, this gun was made to shoot not hang on a wall.

[JSH]

What twist are most of these rifles? Also is the bore a true 32 or are they slugging more like a 30 cal?
Jeff

[Four Fingers of Death]

I spoke about one of these rifles recently. The serial number is 794426. When was this one made? It has the normal Winchester new haven, etc on the octagonal bbl.

Appreciate any help.
mick.

[9.3X62AL]

My Marlin 1894CCL has 1-20" twist, groove diameter is .311", throat about .3115".

[omgb]

I juust slugged my Browning. It came out at .311

[omgb]

I just had a brainstorm. I have a whole box of these Lasercast 115gr Bevel Base bullets that don't shoot worth a dang in my rifle. So, what to do with them? Well, I decided to try and gas check them so as to remove that pesky bevel base. Using Hornady 30 cal GCs and my Star .311 sizer, I put the bullet into the die nose first. This centers the base. I then slip on the GC. The taper built into the die centers the GC on the base. I am using a punch that has been modified for gas check seating by having the center section milled out a few thousandths leaving only an outer rim to push on the check (ala Paco Kelly and Veral LBT Smith style) Any way, the .311 die matches my bore perfectly and since the bullets start out at .313, taking them down to .311 really sets that GC on the bevel base perfectly. Friday I'll see how they shoot.

R J

[9.3X62AL]

Be careful using a chronograph when firing bevel-based boolits that have GC's installed. The checks WILL part company from the boolit, and WILL strike the face of a downrange chronograph and render it hors de combat. Permamently. A buddy of mine from work learned this first hand with his Chrony and Hornady checks so installed on some commercial cast bevel based 158 SWC's in his 357. The rounds were accurate as hell, and as he commented--the GC's did a great job of harvesting his Chrony, almost tipping over the tripod from the impact. Penetration into the faceplate was about a 1/4". almost dead-center in the display.

I just had a brainstorm. I have a whole box of these Lasercast 115gr Bevel Base bullets that don't shoot worth a dang in my rifle. So, what to do with them? Well, I decided to try and gas check them so as to remove that pesky bevel base. Using Hornady 30 cal GCs and my Star .311 sizer, I put the bullet into the die nose first. This centers the base. I then slip on the GC. The taper built into the die centers the GC on the base. I am using a punch that has been modified for gas check seating by having the center section milled out a few thousandths leaving only an outer rim to push on the check (ala Paco Kelly and Veral LBT Smith style) Any way, the .311 die matches my bore perfectly and since the bullets start out at .313, taking them down to .311 really sets that GC on the bevel base perfectly. Friday I'll see how they shoot.

R J