H&R 1871 Target Classic

[Boomer Mikey]

Well, the Starline brass arrived today.

I measured the 2.082" and 2.125" neck wall thickness at 0.007" with a tubing (ball) mic and decided to re-measure the Winchester brass... it measured 0.009" on the ball mic.

I loaded a 0.380" bullet in the 2.125" brass and it chambered fine. The diameter of the dummy round is 0.395". The brass is a little pricey at $28.79 for 50 cases but certainly better than modifying chambers.

I'll continue to use Winchester brass in my 336 Cowboy and my 35-55 wildcats as they feed fine and the brass is stronger. My shooting buddy will be happy to get his 1894 on line and I can use the longer necks to greater advantage in the H&R 1871 Target Rifle too.

Problem solved, thanks Starline!

Boomer

[Bluehawk]

Starline seems like the next thing for me to try. I just ordered some from MIdway Which by the way, has them for $21.99 for 50 , its even cheaper than their Winchester brass at $23.99 per 50 Hopefuly it will solve that problem
I noticed another little problem after shooting last SUnday I am getting some leading at the muzzle end of the rifle I am using commercial cast bullets now tilli can figure out what exact size I want then I will order a mold ( I have a Lee mold for their 255 grainer which drops at about 279 but that will probably be too small)
Leading is about 5 inches fromthe crown and IM guesing that the lube on the commercial bullet is not holding up to the 28 inch barrel . I just lightly coated a few with LLA and then I willshoot them this weekend and see if it helps Once I get a mold that casts at around 380 or 381, and drops a bollit around 250 to 270 grains and is gas checked and has a nice flat nose I will be happy

[Boomer Mikey]

I cast some Lee 379-250-RF, Lyman 375248, and some RCBS 37-250-FN bullets today using 50/50 WW/LINO alloy. As cast the Lee mold cast at 0.380" - 0.381", the Lyman mold cast 0.380" - 0.381", and the RCBS mold cast 0.378". I loaded dummy rounds using as cast Lee and Lyman bullets and a 0.3805" Bear Creek bullet... all chambered and engraved the lands fine. It's going to be a long wait for the 381268 group buy so I'm going to order the Saeco 571 300 gr. RNFP mold. This is about all the H&R can handle with the 1:18 twist barrel.

I liked the way the Lee 379-250-RF bullets engraved the rifling the best.

Boomer

[Bluehawk]

Boomer , Thanx for the mold information gives me a good place to start . MY LEE mold is and older ,single cavity , model and it drops small ( 379) I really want a GC boolit for this rifle any way.
IF I could have any mold I wanted ( HINT HINT ) it would be a RANCH DOG mold dropping a gas Check boolit at about 380 weighing about 250/260 with my alloy. I Like the tumble lube concept
( I have a little over 200 Lbs of ingots sitting around that would be perfect for this rifle at 8lbs WW to 1 1/2lbs pure lead to 1/2lbs 50/50 bar solder)
I have not actually used a RD mold YET but know of three guys who do and all swear by them . I am going to order one soon for my 45/70s in 425 grain weight .
In the mean time I guess I will have to find the mold closest and it will probably be the Lyman 375 449 and hope it drops big enough

[Bluehawk]

Boomer AFTER this last message I sent , I saw on another thread here something about a group buy under your name that sounded Ideal, any thing still on with that ??????

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer AFTER this last message I sent , I saw on another thread here something about a group buy under your name that sounded Ideal, any thing still on with that ??????

Hi Bluehawk,

The 381268 group buy is closed and there are no extras. Won't be here until March anyway.

The Lyman 375248 249gr. bullet is the standard for this cartridge. The Saeco 638, 738 and 571 tapered bullets are very popular as well, the first band is bore diameter and the last band is over groove diameter. I size these tapered bullets nose first at the diameter I want then lube and load. These molds are pricey but will last several lifetimes with reasonable care.

I prefer plainbase bullets for the 38-55 and I'll add a poly wad to the bottom of the bullet if necessary... this is one of PACO's secrets.

From the Leverguns website:

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

"A PACO SECRET....Even though this bullet doesn’t have a gas check, when it is cast hard..a small disk of bullet base size, of thin polypropylene with a very small amount of glue against the base stops any fouling. I cut the poly with a fabric punch, can cut hundreds in minutes...a little glue on a sponge and just tap the bullet base on it and put the disk to it...faster than gas checks almost.

38-55/375 WBB. I have two Win/High Wall single shot rifles...a 32-40 and a 38-55. This year I got a hold of one of the hard to get 38-55 Marlins with 24 inch octagon barrel. I love this round...and I love the 375 Winchester BB. 38-55 brass will work in the 375 Winchester levergun. The Winchester BB ‘94 action was built to withstand 52,000 to 55,000+ psi (NOT CUP) with sustained use. Folks tell me they can load the Big Bore Winchesters much warmer than I claim. But I have seen these fine rifles begin to fail...and fail badly after a few hundred rounds. They will not take being rebuilt to 454 at all! We found that out back in the early 1980s when Freedom Arms tried with two chambered for the round. Lately a number of fine gunsmiths have tried again...same failures. 60,000 psi is just too far over the actions abilities with pressure.

BUT...and it is a big but...52,000+psi in a small bodied case like the 375/38-55 will give some outstanding velocities...but since we are talking of the 38-55 Marlin as the low man on the strength pole...I will keep the pressure rates quoted at no higher than 45,000 psi. The old premier bullet for this rifle and the 375BB..only difference is sizing for each rifle. The Lyman 375248 which has been renumbered from is old style is 250 grains, I size it .376 for the BB and .378 for the Marlin. It doesn’t have a gas check but the same trick with the polypropylene does it for heavy loads. Also Lyman makes a primer gas check 270 grainer ( it’s rated 265 or such but drops heavy from mine)..for a full load with either of these or other 250-270 grain cast bullets 40 grains of AA2230 gives over 2050 fps from the Marlin. And near2600 ft.lbs, it’s silly to say it’s under powered for big game.

For years until the 1970s the traditional leveraction in Canada was the 38-55. It was considered an excellent elk and moose round. 6.5 grains of Red Dot will with the 255- thru 270 grain cast slugs give 1000 fps for a fun load without recoil for almost 600 lbs of muzzle energy...like a heavy loaded 357 at the muzzle. 20 grains of 2400 goes 1600 fps...and 23 grains of 4759 will get close to 1800 fps.

Both Beartooth and Cast Performance, bullet companies make some excellent bullets for these two rifles...just tell them if you are going to shoot them in a 38-55 or the WinBB 375...they will size accordingly. They use LBT designs and have a number of bullet weights. Cast Performance makes a 300 grainer that is excellent. Even on a small elk I wouldn’t side shoot it with this 300 grainer if another animal was standing behind it...it’s penetration is extraordinary. I would wind up killing two birds...as big as they are...with one stone. In my Winchester BB 375 only...I push this 300 grainer at 1875 fps over 33 grains of ReL#7. The 375 WinBB is one of my best leveraction rifles."


The poly trick works great on just about everything 35 caliber and up.

Another bullet I like for my 38-55's and 375 Winchester are Bear Creek 0.377" and 0.380" 255gr. bullets. I get these locally for $19.00 per box of 300. These are dry moly coated bullets - no stickey lube - available in sizes from 0.377" - 0.380" and have worked well for me... no wads, no lube, and no leading.

http://www.pathfindersports.com/p/pa...ek&NID=4714615


Boomer

[garandsrus]

Well,

I just picked up my 38-55 H&R target rifle from Cabelas as I had points there and they gave you a $150 gift card if you purchased $500 worth of stuff!

I have some light 375 Win loads made up (using 38-55 data) that should work fine. The boolits are sized to .379 and chamber fine.

John

[stillhunter]

I have one like yours, presently topped with a Leupold M8 4X. I tried .375 and .376 cast bullets in it and got keyholing and generally mediochre results. It seems to like .378 bullets at either 23 gr 3031 or 28 gr 3031, giving 3 1/2 in groups at 100 yards. I had to go from Lyman dies (.375), to RCBS cowboy dies also, as you need at least a .377 expander. The bullets are plain base 245 grain round nose. Frankly, I think the bore is larger than the chamber! A good challenge to get it to work!! At 200 yards it will be like throwing stones, but in PA we shoot most of our deer under 50 yards, so I am going to hunt with it this year.

[garandsrus]

I shot my rifle the other day... The loads shot OK, about 2" at 50 yards for about a 20-30 shot group, but the rifle should be able to do better. I am going to increase the powder charge some (or change powders) to increase the velocity. I am almost out of vertical sight adjustment at 50 yds! The charge was 8 gr Unique over a Lyman 375449.

What other rear sight can I put on this that will actually be a "target" sight instead of the thing that it came with? The rear sight has been my biggest disappointment with the rifle. You need to remove the aperture to get to the screws to adjust the windage and elevation! It's not a big deal, it's just not a target sight! The site is not click adjustable. The aperture is also larger than I would like.

It looks like the barrel might be drilled and tapped for a scope by removing the rear sight and using the other hole (farther out) on the barrel.

John

[Jon K]

garandsrus,

375449, up the charge to 9.5-10 grains of Unique, or try 5744 17.5-20 grains. WLR/WLRM, Fed 210/215,Rem 9 1/2 all work well, sized .378-.379 or if you have a .380 mould(spelled proper), and 50/50 or BP lube. Seat the boolit right up on the lands. 10 grains of Unique works with the Saeco #571 300 grain boolit also. I had a problem w/harder lubes & .378-.379 boolits fouling and keyholing when trying to drive them over 1400 fps. I'm guessing you're only going about 1,000 fps @8gr of Unique. I got 1140 w/9.5 grains & almost 1170 fps w/10 grains. 19.5 grains of 5744 will do 1400 fps.

Hope this helps you, your gun may react different, but this should give you a starting point.

Jon

[Jon K]

BTW, Your sight settings will change a lot by goin faster. Williams makes a FP-H&R-TK or w/o TK

Jon

[Bluehawk]

WELL I finally received my Starline brass and tried loading up some rounds last night . THEY CHAMBER GREAT with the 380 GC bollits I have I loaded up 20 rounds ( different loads) to test fire this weeknd I cant wait now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait to see how it shoots NOW !!!!!!!

[garandsrus]

I am using a .375 Win die set to load for the 38-55. It doesn't seem to present any problems. Do I need 38-55 dies?

Thanks,
John

[Bluehawk]

Finally got the rifle to my range last weekend and got to shoot it with the boolits loaded inot Starline Brass.
COMPLETEY SOLVED MY PROBLEMS I only loaded one powder charge AA XMP 5744 28 grains in front of the Cast Performance .380 GC boolit Chambers fine and shoots well without any fine tuning it shot consistant 1 3/4 In groups of the bench at 100 yards Sorry no pictures I did not chronograph the load but it figures to be between 1700 and 1800 out of that barrell
Its now a GREAT shooter without having to have the chamber reamed I"M THRILLED

[38-55]

Bluehawk,
Great news !
Stay safe
Calvin

[jim4065]

Looks like a pretty good price: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8302198

But there's only two of them.

[lonewolf5347]

I just bought one so there is only 1 left

[ACK450]

Sorry Mallard 57: looks like Bubba's have taken over!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jjamna]

Looked at one today new for $289, my luck i never have the cash when something is on sale. The Buffalo 45-70 was $329. I think I am going to get one each

[jjamna]

Can you get a Buffalo barrel to go on a traget frame? They both look the same.