H&R 1871 Target Classic

[Bluehawk]

Thanx everyone for your imput I woud realy rather have the chamber opened Maybe i wll contact this guy in Calif. I hate to send the gun ( or at least the barrel ) all the way accross country ( I live in eastern PA) just to have the chamber done but I have no idea of any person in my area that would do that . I loaded up some rounds last night and squeezed them down in the sizing die just enough to chamber them but I have to figure Im reducing the bullet size again any way, So we will see if it works or not. I will get a chance to shoot on friday after noon and find out then . Thanx again

[jim4065]

Well, Buds Gun Shop seems to have dropped them completely. They show neither the Buffalo Hunter in 45-70 nor the the Target Model in 38-55. Makes me wonder if H&R 1871 is dropping these guns.

[teddyblu]

Jimo465

I don.t know why H&R wouild drop a sucessful product, aniyway I checked with a Gzanders dealer and they had 20 or more each of buffalo classic and the 38-55 target rifles (not the dealer- gzanders dist.)

Teddyblu

[Frank46]

Windwalker, your rear sight. I have a origional 1895 win in 30-40 krag and need a sight to fill the dovetail cut in the bbl. Yours looks like a potential solution to my problem. Anywhere I can check a website to get more info?. Frank

[4060MAY]

Buffalo arms has them

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,231.html

[Bluehawk]

Well guys the rifle shot well with the "Squeezed " bollits No Key-holing all went in straight and I got Acceptable accuracy. I DID NOT use any consistant method of "Squeezing" the cartridges down . IM pretty sure that is what accounted for the lack of real good accuracy Beest group of the day was 2.4 inches ( 100 yards off the bench) Most were int he 4 inch category with one going 11.6 inhces with a called flier w/o that it was about 5 inches . BEst accuracy came from gas checked boolits with AA XMP 5744. Chronograph not working but estimated all were about the 1700 FPS range . I have figured out the way to make the squeezing consistant and have eliminated the "Crimp" that I had put in so im expecting much better accuracy nest session . I really dont like the extra step, but im living with it now till I can get the chamber opened I had another problme in that I tried to remeove the front sight to repalce it with a non-target ,hunting type sight but the froint sight wont budge in its dove tail slot Just called H&R to seeif it might be "Silver soldered" in but they say no "Just hit it harder with the drift !" Im going to whack the hellout of it later this week and then go from tghere Thanx again guys for all your advise and help

[38-55]

Hey Bluehawk,
Just for grins try loading some cases that have been fired in your gun that have not been resized....
Calvin

[floodgate]

Bluehawk:

I'm sure you know this, but if not, be SURE to drive that sight out from LEFT to RIGHT (as seen from the shooting position); the dovetails and slots are tapered that way to seat tight as they come up to center.

floodgate

[Bluehawk]

38-55 I tried that yesterday while loading . Tooka case fired in the gun and it went in fine . Took that same case and loaded a 380 GC boolit in there and it would not go. I did take a few new boolits sized to 378 and loaded them in to sized cases and they WILL go it is the biggest boolit i can find that will go with out alteration of some kind I loaded five of them up to try out .
Floodgate Yes I did try that and then tried to tap it a little from the other side jsut to see if it woud move at all . I have removed numerouls sights fomr other rifles and was VERY upset when it wouldnt move , bent a brass drift and it still didnt move . I will try some other things later this week . IM a afraid now of wrecking the sight that is in ther now even though I dont really want to use it . Oh well it will come out eventually Thanx again guys for yoru help and comments

[floodgate]

Bluehawk:

Hmmm... Just had an idea (Uh-Oh!) how about heating the sight itself up with a propane torch, while keeping the barrel cool with a wet rag. Might expand the sight base and open up the dovetail slot a bit. Then 24 hrs. doped liberally with Kroil (after it cools). It couldn't be like the magazine rings on a Winchester 90/06?62 and be a rotary dovetail - naah, not on a sight. You might also could cut down through the sight and male dovetail at a suitable angle (avoiding cutting into the barrel) with a fine hacksaw, and collapse it.

floodgate

[Bluehawk]

flood gate I did think of the propane torch I will try that with some penetrating oil, hopefully that will do it. I have never had this much trouble with a dovetailed sight EVER. I have a large sight pusher usually used on auto pistol sights I tried that too NADA. Im thinking now that the distributer had gthe thing sitting somewhere where some condensastion got to it an d maybe there is some rust built up under the sight in the dove tail hopefully the heat might break that free thanx again

[38-55]

Bluehawk,
Iff'n I was you and I was that close to getting rounds to chamber I'd be tempted to ream the inside of a few cases to see if the accuracy improvement warranted getting your chamber reamed... Kinda a reverse engineering thing.. Just a thought
Calvin

[Boomer Mikey]

Original 38-55 brass was thinner than current brass from Winchester and Starline at the 2.082" length. Original brass was 0.0075" - 0.008" thick; current brass is 0.0095" - 0.010" thick for both Winchester and Starline 2.082" long cases.

H&R uses a reamer spec-ed on the original cartridge with a 0.379" groove diameter and 0.373 bore diameter with a 0.395" max diameter neck

Turning the necks down will permit you to chamber a 0.380" diameter bullet but this will become a tiresome thing.

Running a 375 Wichester reamer into the H&R 38-55 chamber will permit you to use current production Winchester and Starline 2.082" 38-55 brass with 0.380" bullets. The chamber neck diameter is 0.401" providing the room needed for the thicker brass.

Starline also offers the original, longer, 2.125" long cases now (Midway has them). This brass may be thinner in the neck... I don't know, but I plan to check this out next month. For 10 cents more per case I wouldn't neck turn them or buy a reamer.

Boomer

Thumbnails of Cartridge and Chamber Drawings from the Leverguns.com website: Left - 38-55, Right - 375 Winchester

[Boomer Mikey]

I made a pound slug of the chamber in my H&R 38-55 Target Handi-Rifle this evening and indeed the chamber dimensions of my rifle are as close to original 38-55 chamber drawing values as is practicallly possible. Except for a little roughness in the 6 degree throat taper the chamber is fine.

Chamber neck diameter is 0.3955"
Chamber length is 2.120"
Groove diameter is 0.379"

I ordered some of the new 2.125" long Starline cases, a 0.379" sizing die, and a Lee 379-250-RF mold today. I'm not crazy about the Lee mold but it doesn't hurt to have another mold to go with the 2 Lyman and RCBS molds I have already.

I'll report back with how this comes together. Maybe this is my time to break open the H777 and CleanShot. I don't have any 20:1 or 30:1 alloy but I'll bet my 50/50 lino/ww alloy will work fine air cooled.

Boomer

[Nobade]

Hey guys, I just got an email back from Fred Zeglin at 4D reamer rentals. He says he has two 38-55 reamers, one with a .395 neck and the other with a .400 neck. If those cases loaded with a .380 bullet measure less than .400 at the mouth, I think that the solution would be to just rent the reamer from him and open up the chamber. BTW, I too am curious to hear how thick the new Starline cases are when you get them in.

[45 2.1]

I made a pound slug of the chamber in my H&R 38-55 Target Handi-Rifle this evening and indeed the chamber dimensions of my rifle are as close to original 38-55 chamber drawing values as is practicallly possible. Except for a little roughness in the 6 degree throat taper the chamber is fine.

Chamber neck diameter is 0.3955"
Chamber length is 2.120"
Groove diameter is 0.379"

I ordered some of the new 2.125" long Starline cases, a 0.379" sizing die, and a Lee 379-250-RF mold today. I'm not crazy about the Lee mold but it doesn't hurt to have another mold to go with the 2 Lyman and RCBS molds I have already.
Boomer

I've had three 38-55s and several 375 Winchesters. All would take paper patched 0.382" boolits with 0.009" case walls (blown out 30/30 brass for a chamber diameter of around 0.400"). The commercial WW cases had thicker walls at about 0.010". With a chamber diameter of 0.3955", I think you might have trouble with what your wanting to do in that rifle. I don't have the H&R, but the Browning, Winchester and Marlin rifles do work correctly. I would think about a 0.380" boolit for it also, or larger if you can get away with it.

[Bluehawk]

I searched around my realoading cabinet and came up with a box of once fired factory 38/55 form what appears to be the late 50s manufacture . Its certainly thinner than new brass from WW ( brass is marked WRA) I sized some of it down and then cleaned it up. I loaded some 379 bullets in them and the H&R willchamber them without a hitch With 380 GC boolits it will ALMOST go. I could force the shell in and it would probablly chamber all the way and fire but wih the dummy rounds , it would have to be pounded out from the muzzle. 381 bullets were not even close . So IMHO the answer is NOT in thinning the brass by out side or inside neck reaming of the cases. To time consuming and to much work for very little gain, not to mention the reduction of the strength of the brass for future reloads .
I had the similar problem with and orignal 1886 Win in 38/56 . Neck reaming the new cases did work well in that cartridge for the same problem.

[Boomer Mikey]

Hey guys, I just got an email back from Fred Zeglin at 4D reamer rentals. He says he has two 38-55 reamers, one with a .395 neck and the other with a .400 neck. If those cases loaded with a .380 bullet measure less than .400 at the mouth, I think that the solution would be to just rent the reamer from him and open up the chamber. BTW, I too am curious to hear how thick the new Starline cases are when you get them in.

If the new Starline brass doesn't work with a 0.380" bullet I'll probably get Dave Manson to make me a 38-55 reamer with a 0.4015" - 0.402" neck. I checked the 4D reamer and it's a 2.085" cartridge length reamer.

Thanks Noblade,

Boomer

[Boomer Mikey]

I've had three 38-55s and several 375 Winchesters. All would take paper patched 0.382" boolits with 0.009" case walls (blown out 30/30 brass for a chamber diameter of around 0.400"). The commercial WW cases had thicker walls at about 0.010". With a chamber diameter of 0.3955", I think you might have trouble with what your wanting to do in that rifle. I don't have the H&R, but the Browning, Winchester and Marlin rifles do work correctly. I would think about a 0.380" boolit for it also, or larger if you can get away with it.

Thanks Bob,

Both my Marlin 38-55 336CB and 375 Winchester M94 have 0.375" groove diameters. I load 0.377" bullets in these and they work well. I'm sure a soft alloy bullet sized at 0.377" - 0.378" would chamber in the H&R and with enough powder obtrude enough to work OK too, but with plainbase bullets I want a little more insurance... 0.380" or larger.

Boomer

[Boomer Mikey]

I stopped by a shooting buddy's house today to chat about our cowboy match this weekend and he wanted to discuss his accuracy problems with his newly acquired antique 38-55 1894 Winchester levergun. The rifle was actually in very good condition considering it was made in the first year of production, 1894 but a previous owner shortened the barrel to about 1/4" longer than the magazine tube with a hacksaw and filed the muzzle flat... no crown to speak of.

He said he couldn't chamber 0.380" bullets so he used a trick his gunstore buddy told him about and used the full length sizer die to re-size loaded rounds to chamber.

His bullets were hitting the targets sideways at 50 yards. He showed me a target where you could see the outline of the grease grooves!

We knocked apart a dummy round he gave the sizer die treatment to and I measured the diameter of the 0.380" bullet which was now 0.374". We slugged the bore... 0.379" groove / 0.374" bore.

Another candidate for a custom 38-55 reamer.


Boomer