can you make priming compound?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If a person can't safely make a primer compound, they should not be doing load development either.

Who said they have been doing load development? Anyway, there is quite a gulf in terms of safety, between those two things.

[perotter]

@Marshall

Now that settled down a bit for me, I'm going to start the process for making lead picrate primer as I have everything needed to make lead picrate.

Have you tried any other sensitizer than tetrazene? I'm a couple of chemicals short what I need to make tetrazene.

Also if you know how to or run across how to separate ammonium nitrate and guandine nitrate please let me know.

[Traffer]

@Ballistics In Scotland
Very good observation. I have been wanting to find a way to make non corrosive primer for viable reloading of 22lr in volume. Marshall could do that, but I am not Marshall. I do not have the ability to "cook up" consistent batches of good, non corrosive primer efficiently enough to be be of use. Making these chemicals is not something that one can "stumble around doing until you get the hang of it". And that is basically how I learn to do things. Just attempt and practice over and over until I can do it. So unless and until I can have someone walk me through the process of producing the magical stuff I desire, I will be forced to use substandard corrosive stuff that may eat my guns alive.

[GhostHawk]

Just shooter said "I actually made some, but will be a lot easier if I could acquire it ready for use. "

If you read this entire thread the link you search for is there. But I no longer remember where.

[Duckdog]

Making this H48 mix is as easy as mixing 3 different chemicals together and some crushed glass or fine sand into a fine powder. Just weigh them out and your all set. I max my batches out at 33 grains, so there is minimal chance of blowing off a finger with it being in the open, in my opinion.

I would rather use this mix than roll caps, which I did for a while. I set more of those off than I probably actually used. Traffer has a better way to do it, but I had more trouble.

I bought my chemicals from Hobby Chemicals, and he is outstanding to deal with. His prices are very good, as well. I see he has good prices on gum Arabic, so I might just order some more supplies and add that to the mix. I have not been using a binder when loading 22 LR or percussion caps. I think it might help save me not only time, but make a better finished product.

Marshall, I know you use it in your mix, how much would you recommend in a 33 grain mix of H48 to have the binding qualities of this chemical?

[perotter]

@perotter,



I'll have to think about how to separate a mixture of ammonium nitrate and guanidine nitrate. However, pure guanidine nitrate can be had for only $8/lb from http://www.pyrochemsource.com/

I do not know of any substitute for tetrazene that is easier to make than tetrazene (some start with tetrazene). To make tetrazene from guanidine nitrate, first dehydrate to nitroguanidine using conc H2SO4, then reduce to aminoguanidine using zinc dust.

Marshall

I have guanidine nitrate on hand.

The reason that I'm asking is that there is a simple method of making an ammonium nitrate/guanidine nitrate mix using hardware store chemicals. This is for that base of a smokeless powder. Just thinking that if a man could kill 3 birds with one stone, time and money would be saved.

For that lead picrate based one I'll try lead nitrohypophosphite. That and maybe a few of the other know sensitizers. I've already made the nitroguanidine from guanidine nitrate, but haven't gotten around to getting the zinc dust.

[perotter]

@perotter,



I just remembered that glass powder and/or CaSi2 are sometimes substituted for tetrazene, so this might be a possible solution.

BTW, my next primer mix will use a "Lead Picrate/Lead Nitrate/Lead Acetate" clathrate compound discussed in US patent 3293091. The formula is shown below:

EPM8
%
LP/LN/LA 42
Ba(NO3)2 44
CaSi2 7
Aluminum 5
Tetrazene 2

The raw materials for the LP/LN/LA clathrate compound are 1) picric acid, 2) lead nitrate, and 3) white vinegar (or sodium acetate if you have it). Kenney describes this compound in his patent as a static insensitive but powerful primary. So, if you can make the starting picric acid, it should be easy to make this primer compound. I'll share more on this synthesis later.

Marshall

Thanks. I started the process to make picric acid from aspirin today.

PS
I ran across a French patent awhile back that used a couple of different simple sensitizers. I'm going to try them and hope that saved or bookmarked that patent.

[GONRA]

GONRA has always used (as suggestedby Marshall) "I have only used a 10% solution of shellac in ethanol."

"Paint" insides of large 9mm Berdan copper primer cups,
Zn plated large pistol brass cups (brand new CCI mfg, for red P based pimer mixes (24 year + shelf life)
3 mil Al foil structures used for 9mm Berdan primer top foils and then
(with green food dye to pretend product is actually RWS mfg.) the "finished product".

One thing haven't seen discussed here (probably missed it) is the use of
cheapo loading/swaging presses (CH Swag-O-Matic's, etc.)
(and LOTTSA HOME MADE TOOLING!) to swage primer cups from flat stock
(GONRA is TOO SCARED to use "flattened firing pin dent" cups!)
seat the top foil and press dry mixes at 4,000 psi into the cup.

perotter's "clathrate compound(s) discussed in US patent 3293091"
passed GONRA's 24 year dry powder shelf life tests looong ago so should be good.
Picrates can be a little scary.
Be sure to use above mentioned shellac lacquer to internally coat cups
to keep "picrate" mix from copper in the brass cup.

[perotter]

Thanks GONRA for the information and tips. I think that Marshall had some dies made to make Berdan cups.

Thanks Marshall for the time and information. It gives a good route to both a primer compound and a smokeless powder. Barring new information, this is the route that I'll go when the time comes to make this a top priority.

[Multigunner]

I've seen several videos on homemade muskets used by poachers in Asia and the Pacific islands and in each they used a commonly available strike anywhere match as the priming compound for homemade percussion caps.
Don't know what formula is used for these match heads. These aren't a brand you are likely to find in the USA.

When I was a youngster building a campfire I tossed the large box of strike anywhere Kitchen matches I was using to the side and the whole box ignited on impact like a rocket motor. I was a bit stunned , long enough that the match I'd just struck went out and I was left with no fire and no matches.

I've toyed with the idea of building a muzzle loader with a modernized version of the wheel lock, using regular cigarette lighter flints rather than natural iron pyrite.

[jdfoxinc]

Marshal

I searched the three suppliers listed on the previouspage. None have antimony sulfide. Just antimony trisulfide. Only pyrotecnic chemicals has potassium chlorate. Which non Atf mfg license Al should I use?

[jdfoxinc]

Thank you for the answer. My goal is to make magnum percussion caps and primers, so 60 mesh Al sounds good.

[Traffer]

I may have mis-diagnosed the situation but, it seemed to me that the coarser aluminum powder that I used (70 mesh) left the barrel very clean, free of powder deposits. That was with smokeless powder. It may be that because the aluminum takes longer to burn in the bigger mesh it assists the combustion of the powder as it expands through the barrel.

[valstietis]

I need some guidance. I am in the process of buying materials for EPH 10 centerfire primer mix. In order to produce Lead Hypophosphite I decided to buy some Sodium Hypophosphite. In majority of places I see on sale Sodium Hypophosphite Monohydrate (NaH2PO2.H2O). Is it the same and will it work the same as Sodium Hypophosphite? What did you people use?

[valstietis]

I have another question about foil paper used to cover the wet mix before seating an anvil. I am coming from the part of the world where it is not that clear what foil paper means . Is it an aluminum foil or is it some baking paper? Don't they make drying process slower? Wouldn't some thin regular paper allow water to evaporate quicker?

[low8option]

Hello all. Just joined your group but have been lurking in the background for a while. I was originally directed to this thread back in 2013 when the question was first asked and we were having trouble finding primers. Luckily I found a source for primer and this thread was forgotten. Then about six months ago I was playing around making .22 sensitive tannerite which morphed into an unsuccessful attempt to make it pistol sensitive and I remembered this thread so I looked it up to see what insight I could gather that I could use. Must say I am impressed by the work that has been done and the willingness to share information. Tonight I reread the entire thread and saw a couple things I am going to try as I was motivated to try making some primers just for the experience.

[Traffer]

Welcome aboard.

Hello all. Just joined your group but have been lurking in the background for a while. I was originally directed to this thread back in 2013 when the question was first asked and we were having trouble finding primers. Luckily I found a source for primer and this thread was forgotten. Then about six months ago I was playing around making .22 sensitive tannerite which morphed into an unsuccessful attempt to make it pistol sensitive and I remembered this thread so I looked it up to see what insight I could gather that I could use. Must say I am impressed by the work that has been done and the willingness to share information. Tonight I reread the entire thread and saw a couple things I am going to try as I was motivated to try making some primers just for the experience.

[Plate plinker]

Yes look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfeTsByKhM

[Traffer]

Wow dat Cody got some balls. Looks like I'm gonna be using mercury fulminate from now on. Easy to make, environmentally friendly and good for what ails you. It's a win/win. (THAT WAS SARCASM FOLKS. THIS STUFF IS DAAAANGEROUS FOR YOUR HEALTH. IF YOU TRY IT BE OUTSIDE UPWIND)

Yes look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfeTsByKhM

[Plate plinker]

Notice he said he only makes small quantities at a time for safety. I was surprised he did not make it into a paste like the commercial manufacturers do. But he was only showing how to do one time shot so whatever.