can you make priming compound?

[perotter]

If a person can get red phosphorus, it is better to use it in a non-chlorate based mix. If one uses a nitrate based mix, it is not only safer to make it is also non-corrosive.

[Gun_nut83]

If a person can get red phosphorus, it is better to use it in a non-chlorate based mix. If one uses a nitrate based mix, it is not only safer to make it is also non-corrosive.

I won't say red phos is "EASY" to get, but I will say it is more available then one would believe if you want to do the work to get it. What chemical compound would you recommend in stead of potassium chlorate? Potassium nitrate?

[DeanWinchester]

You fellars could always try some Nitrogen Tri-iodide.

Ya wouldn't even need a firing pin! LOL!

[Gun_nut83]

You fellars could always try some Nitrogen Tri-iodide.

Ya wouldn't even need a firing pin! LOL!

lol that's ok

[perotter]

I won't say red phos is "EASY" to get, but I will say it is more available then one would believe if you want to do the work to get it. What chemical compound would you recommend in stead of potassium chlorate? Potassium nitrate?

Barium nitrate is what the US Army used in the 1940's. Use: BN=80% with RP=20% or better use BN=56%, PR=25% and 17% antimony sulfide. Add 1% gum if you are mixing it wet and that is what I'd recommend. Depending on the powder you're using, you might want to substitute 3-5% aluminum powder for the same percent of antimony sulfide to give a quicker/stronger ignition to the powder.

[perotter]

You fellars could always try some Nitrogen Tri-iodide. Ya wouldn't even need a firing pin! LOL!

Iodine could be hard for some(most?) people in the US to get as it is on the DEA list. It is easy to get here in farm country though. Nice and easy to make. To bad it is to sensitive. There is one compound that will work, that is easy to make and every grocery store in the US has what is needed to do so. I'd use it in real pinch, but only if there would be a very big problem in a gun using a corrosive mix. Of course if you could get those thing in a grocery store, I'd have to think want was needed to make sulfur nitride would also be available.

[perotter]

FWIW, potassium nitrate doesn't 'like' to give up it's oxygen as easy as some other nitrates. That is why a small amount of a some other primary is added with it when making primers. That way one can get 100% ignition and at a burn speed that is desired.

[bannor]

think I'd mix it from behind a sandbagged wall, using LONG wooden spatula, heavy gloves, armholes in the wall, of course, and a peep hole, with thick lexan plastic to look thru. make a small amount, move it well away, make another small amount, move it well away, repeat, and eventually have lots of it, but I"d never put much of it in any one place!

[wicket]

I wouldn't make Armstrong's mixture or nitrogen triiodide in the first place but would select a somewhat more stable compound made from more readily obtained ingredients, and would prepare it in small batches as needed while wearing appropriate safety equipment. There are two ways around the current cap shortage: one is to make functional caps safely and efficiently in small quantities as needed, the other is to damage oneself physically to the point that caps are no longer needed.

[wicket]

Same experience here Marshall, but with FH 42, i diaper the mixture then load and press dry for percussion caps. It's interesting that word is starting to get around about employing the composition from toy caps (probably Armstrong's mixture) resulting in accidental detonation when the cap is placed on the percussion nipple. It's not generally a life/death issue with a percussion revolver since capping takes place before the chamber is aligned with the barrel, but with a rifle or single shot pistol the consequences can be lethal.
As you mention, the price can't be beat! My suspicion is that even when the uncertain supply problem goes away (assuming it does this time) that prices are going to remain substantially higher, so there's a considerable monetary incentive in learning how to produce safe effective primers.

[bannor]

Only if your (skilled, at risk) time making primers is worth nothing. Sounds to me like you'd have to get 20c per primer if you sold them by the thousand, just to make minimum wage.

[wicket]

Dunno bannor, i have a dual function press-operated die, am upgrading to a 24 cap loading tray, and don't have to drive 45 minutes each way to maybe get a tin of CCI # 11's. What kind of equipment are you using, and what's your reasoning behind making "lots" of primer in a bunch of small batches?

[perotter]

Thanks for letting us know that the Frankford mix works in caps. I've wonder if the Frankford Arsenal mixes for rifles would work for percussion caps, but I've never owned a muzzleloader to try it.

[perotter]

... Regarding reliability of H-48 primers, I have only had 2 FTF so far in my testing of 500+ H-48 primers and those were due to light primer strikes. Perfectly acceptable for practice ammunition. When I use my own cast lead bullets and homemade primers, my cost/round for .380 ammo is $0.008. Yes, 0.8 cents/round!

Are you using any gum, shellac, etc as a binder? In part because of it having a chrome bore, much of my testing is done with a Type 99 that has a strong firing pin strike and I have little experience testing something that occasionally gives a light strike. I have tested binderless mix vs bindered and found that the use of a binder looks to be better and assume that the commercial manufactures add it for a reason. By the way, I'm happy to see that you stuck around Marshall and are able/willing to post about having good results to us and the low cost of your reloads.

[perotter]

No new ideas(good or questionable) for a non-corrosive mix that would be easy. I'll certainly let you know if I do. For a local source of powdered aluminum you might look at using Silver Seal radiator sealer. It is 90% AL powder, 5% stearic acid, 2% silicon and 2% iron. I've never tried it and don't know if non-aluminum ingredients would cause a problem. I thought of using it years ago, but I use aluminum powder for an industrial casting process and always have 25-75 lbs of it around.

[ofitg]

Yes, I use an ~10% solution of shellac in ethanol as a binder. In my primer building method I dry pack the H-48 mixture, add a paper disk, pack again, completely moisten the packed pellet with a minimum amount of shellac solution, then press in the anvil while it is still moist. Allow to dry overnight and your primers are ready to go. I believe that the addition of the binder solution greatly enhances the reliability of the primer. I also add a few tenths of a grain of powdered aluminum (~60-80 mesh that I made in a coffee grinder) to each batch to help with slower powders. The most time intensive part for me is cleaning, removing anvils, removing dimples and sorting used primers. Rebuilding the primers is actually pretty fast. Working in small batches slows things down, but I can easily do 100/day in just a couple of hours.

Marshall, I've been wondering, how finely ground/milled is your Antimony Sulfide?

According to an old 1922 book, the Army specified that the AS should pass through a 100-mesh screen, but no more than 50% should pass through a 200-mesh screen -

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?i...iew=1up;seq=64

[nicholst55]

I would think that the Atomized Aluminum that Brownells sells for use when glass bedding would be more practical than using Silver Seal Radiator Sealer. Probably less expensive, as well.

Now, where can I find specifics on the Frankford Arsenal primer mixtures?

[ofitg]

Nicholst55, here's a good summary -

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/thr...ixtures.58110/

[perotter]

I would think that the Atomized Aluminum that Brownells sells for use when glass bedding would be more practical than using Silver Seal Radiator Sealer. Probably less expensive, as well. Now, where can I find specifics on the Frankford Arsenal primer mixtures?

I put that out there because, for reasons all there own, some people don't like to buy primer chemicals online or mail order. The pryo houses have atomized aluminum for about 1/4 of what Brownells sells it for.

[perotter]

Marshall,

Besides free brass, another advantage of Berdan primers is there are several non-corrosive primer mixes that will work in them very well that won't work in Boxer primers. You might want to consider trying a lead nitrate/hypophosphite double salt mix. No special equipment needed and it's not explosive until after the completed primer is dry. I've tested a few and wasn't disappointed with the results.