Talk to me about Iron Sights and aging Eyes

[Bass Ackward]

I find a lot of what people believe are opens or eye issues is really light .... and the lack of use. Fear that comes from having used glass. At least it was for me. So I just painted the pig too.

Vision problems are truely vision problems, but our fore fathers used opens all their lives as it was all they had. There is a psychological crutch that comes from any type of glass that makes you believe that you just HAVE TO have glass. Much as the fear of falling eventually grips older people into using walkers long before it's time. Exercise.

The answer for most of us is light and .... frequency of use. I like opens with more light around the back sight. Larger peeps, wider rear notches. Not as precision on a target, but it works to paint the pig for longer in the day. And surprisingly, I still shoot them fairly well when I try. Just takes a larger, brighter target today than it used to.

[JRR]

I have excellent long distance vision and horrendous close up vision. My reading glasses are 2.75 correction but my distance is 20/20. My optometrist gave me a prescription for shooting. The polycarbonate lenses have no correction on the left side and a 1.5 correction on the right with the focal point being approx. 36" instead of the normal 18-24 in. for reading. There is enough correction to clean up the front sight but not enough to blur the target too much.

I have peep sights on all my rifles which go from a 28" barreled 22 to 16" levers and 23" military bolt actions. I can usually out shoot most of my buddies and their scopes in 3 position matches at the 50 or 100 distance (low blood pressure and shallow breathing), as long as I keep the diabetes in check.
Jeff

[Just Duke]

I have excellent long distance vision and horrendous close up vision. My reading glasses are 2.75 correction but my distance is 20/20. My optometrist gave me a prescription for shooting. The polycarbonate lenses have no correction on the left side and a 1.5 correction on the right with the focal point being approx. 36" instead of the normal 18-24 in. for reading. There is enough correction to clean up the front sight but not enough to blur the target too much.

Jeff

This is what Bill Bagwell told me to do. He says it works for him.
On my Sharps aquisition I am playing with the idea of contacting BJ Jones and having him make me up a lense for rear peap with the proper focal length.

[Just Duke]

This should be a sticky if I could see it.

[Nueces]

Jeff, my eyes are similar to yours. While trying to figure out an eyeglass lens that worked with rifle sights, I tried a simple drugstore pair of 1.00 glasses and found that a Merit adjustable rear aperture and a sharp front post let me get under an MOA. I had thought I was done when my near vision started to go.

You can learn a lot by fooling around with these cheap glasses ($10 - $15 a pair). I've made custom glasses by buying matched frames in different diopters and swapping lenses (the frames have to secure the lenses with screws, of course). Simply removing the left lens from the 1.00 pair works great for me on the bench. I do have to put on my reading glasses for anything up close. And then there's the pair for handguns. But I can still shoot.

Mark

I have excellent long distance vision and horrendous close up vision. My reading glasses are 2.75 correction but my distance is 20/20. My optometrist gave me a prescription for shooting. The polycarbonate lenses have no correction on the left side and a 1.5 correction on the right with the focal point being approx. 36" instead of the normal 18-24 in. for reading. There is enough correction to clean up the front sight but not enough to blur the target too much.

I have peep sights on all my rifles which go from a 28" barreled 22 to 16" levers and 23" military bolt actions. I can usually out shoot most of my buddies and their scopes in 3 position matches at the 50 or 100 distance (low blood pressure and shallow breathing), as long as I keep the diabetes in check.
Jeff

[Vintage BPCS]

Aging Eyes:
I to have vision difficulties with seeing the iron sights at age 60ish. Unfortunately I am near sighted and need specs to see beyond my nose, but things get better with age. Don't need specs to read close anymore. I have investigated the topic for the past year and found some very good articles in BPC News and Single Shot Exch. You hinted at the type of rifle you shoot. If that or any rifle can be adapted to the receiver peep sight and globe type front sight your ability to focal will greatly improve. I have found that peeps that attach directly to the specs lens are cumbersome and unsuitable for hunting or woods work. The receiver sight seems to be faster on point and for me more accurate, allowing for a full field of vision. The receiver sight allows for aperture changes which correct for light conditions to bring the sight picture into focal. Hadely and Merit adjustable apertures allow for instant changes. I have been training myself to shoot with both eyes open while sighting thru my dominate eye, and this has improved my ability to see targets at most distances. Lastly, consider having a special pair of glasses made to your prescription but with no bifocal etc. and have the Optometrist move the center of focal (for the sighting eye) over toward the edge of the lens (nose side), this I have been told moves the line sight closer to the shooting position with the way one holds the rifle.

[Bret4207]

This should be a sticky if I could see it.

Your wish is my command Dukey Baby! Whenever I see your handle I think of the Duke character in Doonsbury!

[Alvin in AZ]

This is what I fiNgured out on my own...
YMMV :)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/peepL.jpg

The screw-in peep is just for the picture, that ain't the one i really use. :)

That one is drilled out with a nice new 3/32" drill bit clamped into some
Vise-Grips while the peep is chucked into the drill and spun. Blued using Brownell's OxPho-Blue.

That's the same hole size as the one i use except for the large diameter
"hood" is still on the one shown. That peep is about .375" (3/8") in diameter
and the one i actually use is closer to .300" after I removed the "hood".

Doesn't sound important but in the actual use of the things in "any" light
conditions with "camouflaged" animals the target and sights are easier
to see than with either the full sized peep insert and/or without any peep
insert.

That 30-30 is used almost excusively for jack rabbit shooting and it has
"splattered;)" well over a 1000 of them.

I'm figuring this isn't the end of experimentation but at least starting
down the right road? :)

Alvin in AZ
ps- that used to be a Lyman 66a ;)

[badgeredd]

I modified an extra peep to fit my SKS and left the original iron on the front. Glory be, I can see!!!!! I have added a bright yellow ring on the inside of the peep on my 1895 Marlin which helped in lowered light. Now I am thinking that I will either get a tang sight for my Glenfield 30 or make a peep that fits into the original dove tail slot for the rear sight. I do know that a peep type sight wirks well for me. at least for hunting and casual target shooting. At 60 the ole eyes aren't as good but the focussing effect of a peeper works for me.

[Alvin in AZ]

...thinking that I will either get a tang sight for my Glenfield 30 or make a peep
that fits into the original dove tail slot for the rear sight.

"WGRS" Williams guide receiver sight fits the little scope grooves.
It's about as low as they can make them but a lot of the time the front sight needs to be raised. :/

On my old German pellet gun I bought the tallest front sight Brownell's sold and started there since the comb on the stock is so stinkin high. The pellet gun was actually made for scope use. Bought it in '68 while i was earing 50c an hour. :)
Then went with the WGRS and has worked out great. :)

Anyway it's cool you'd consider making a peep sight! :)

I made one for a Mauser '88 one time (the action was made in 1889).
(8x57 16+1/4 inch '98 barrel screwed into the action, pistol grip, no buttstock)
A friend at work made it from "spare parts" and gave it to me. :)

I experimented with the height and then drilled a large diameter hole to match
the bolt's upper radius then a small diameter hole next to it the distance I had
figured out it needed.

(then removed everything that didn't look like a peep sight ;)

Lucked out! it worked out great! :)
One flathead screw and some blackened Acra-Glas did the job holding it in place.

No pictures, it got stolen. :/

It was more-fun-to-shoot than a guy would think I'd be. :)
Cases poured full of IMR 7828 powder made some think they were shooting a cannon. ;)
...and it wasn't as strong as a 454 Casull LOL :)


Alvin in AZ

[Brownie]

I do exactly the same thing as tomf52 except I cut the unused side off.

Brownie

[TAWILDCATT]

has any one tried CLAROXON.it is advertised as eye enhancer for shooters.me I had both eyes operated for cataracts.what a diferrence.

[Doc1]

I'm 51 and my near vision started going south at 42. No horrible vision problems (yet) just the normal age-related stuff. I need reading glasses to decipher newsprint.

Some things that work for me? Scopes - obviously - but I'm really an iron sights man and have tried to accommodate my poorer vision within the iron world.

Peep sights are great, but they need to be mounted towards the rear of the receiver. The replacement peeps designed to replace the barrel-mounted v-notch sights on .mil rifles have been disappointing. I mounted one of the MOJO rear peeps on one of my K98s and was extremely unhappy with it. Then I added MOJO's front ghost ring sight and things improved considerably! The MOJO's quality was fine, but again we are confronted with too much eye relief (distance) between the shooter's eye and the peep sight. This does not maximize the aperture effect of a peep sight. Next I mounted a Lyman peep on another K98's receiver and kept the stock front sight. That combo works great, but of course I had to drill and tap the receiver to mount it. You might not want to do that on a collectible!

The other option which I've tried with some success is simply to open up the v-notch on open sights or re-contour it into a "U" with jewelers files. A fatter front post helps a lot, too.

As another poster noted, I can still shoot my M-44s fairly with their stock sights. They have a large notch on the rear sight and a fat front post. Basically, I only see shadows and blobs, but I can align those shadows and blobs and achieve reasonable accuracy. You have to be able to see it to use it and at least the big notches and front sights allow that much!

Best regards
Doc

[Three44s]

Well Doc ... it sounds like you have run the gammot .......

The best way to use a peep sight is to maximize sighting radius and that involves drilling tapping milsurps that are not already endowed with them.

So here is another entirely different tact ........

A "non-invasive" scout mount ..... weaver rail and then mount a Bushy or EOTech holosight on it!

I have two Bushies and swear by them ...... no magnification and thus no eye relief issues ... HUGE field of view ....

I run the dot brightness down to just what I can see and it "shrinks" the dot for more precision.

Three 44s

[JSnover]

I have two Bushies and swear by them ...... no magnification and thus no eye relief issues ... HUGE field of view ....

I run the dot brightness down to just what I can see and it "shrinks" the dot for more precision.

Three 44s

I'll second that! I don't care much for gadgets but after I tried the Bushnell holosight I bought one and mounted it on my FAL. Love it!
A few years ago I bought a sporterized Enfield in 45-70 with a williams aperture mounted just ahead of the chamber. That little tiny hole was too far away for me to use it. So I removed the insert. Works like a ghost ring now. It's easy to 'find the hole' and as accurate as I'll ever need it to be.

[Doc1]

In my previous post I mentioned some of the mods I'd done on K98s to accommodate peep sights. I just reread that post and realized I'd neglected to mention just about my favorite rifle! The slightly weird Spanish FR-8 carbine!

Any of you guys with fading close up vision who like Mausers should consider this little rifle. I love 98s and like the 7.92x57...but I also like .308. My happiest combination is a 98 in 7.62 NATO and those are relatively scarce. The FR-8 has been the best .mil conversion I've found so far. The FR-8 is an official Spanish arsenal 7.62 conversion and not a bubba job. They used their M43 8mm Mausers as the basis and as the M43 is a standard pattern K98, parts commonality is a piece of cake.

Most .mil Mausers have terrible sights for anyone with poor closeup vision. To me, the single best thing about the FR-8 is its sighting system. It's just about the only .mil Mauser I'm aware of that has a stock, rear mounted peep sight! And yes, it's weird. The receiver holds a little housing with a perforated wheel. These perforations are your apertures for different distances! Turn the wheel to your desired setting and it's solidly held in place by a ball type detent. The sight picture is puuuurfect for me and my 51YO eyes! The front sight is a CETME type eccentric post which is screwed up or down (need the sight tool) for elevation and to make modest windage adjustments. I've never ordered the tool, as mine was dead on.

The sights alone were enough to sell me on the rifle, but there's lots of other features to recommend it. As previously noted, it's built on a standard M98 action and is strong! Unlike the similar FR-7 which was built on an M93 action, I have no hesitation about running full house loads through my FR-8. The carbine length was achieve in part by using CETME barrels in the conversion, but unlike regular CETME barrels, these were manufactured with UNfluted chambers and are easy on brass. I don't know if it's typical of the breed, but my FR-8 has a very tight chamber and this helps extend the life of my brass, as well. Though this is a very individual thing, despite its weird looks, the FR-8 balances and fits me well, comes to the shoulder quickly and naturally and the sight picture immediately fills the eye.

If any of you older - or vision-impaired - guys like Mausers, next time you're at a show, try to find an FR-8. You just might fall in love

Best regards
Doc

[Three44s]

You've just described my favorite iron rear sight!



That's the rear sight similar to the G3's and Cetme assault rifles ....... and the last time I picked up a Shotgun news ..... they were available.

I've got two complete units for future projects and one on a HK 91 ......

....... yes, a grand rear appeture sight!!!

Grand indeed!

The same system was also used on the MP5 ...... however ...... they used a drum with larger peep holes because it's more of a pistol.

Three 44s

[jsizemore]

I talked to a fella that sold iron sights for handguns years ago when my vision started causing me problems when I was approaching 50. I knew he was past 60 and would have some sage advice. He told me to go to the discount store, take your pick, and go to the cheap reading glasses and find the pair that will let you see your thumbnail clearly when you have your arm extended in front of you. Now buy additional glasses that are 1 to 2 powers stronger and milder than the one that let you see your thumbnail clearly. I found that 1.75 worked for me. So I bought glasses 1.25,1.5, 1.75,2.0, and 2.25. I use Ready Readers from Family Dollar, $1/pair. Attach your Merit to your glasses and find the pair and Merit addjustment that allows you to see the sights and a CONSISTENT target. Clear sights are the most important. He told me the target was a blob but he held on the same place on the blob. The fella that told me about this set a record at the Cholla Challenge with an iron sight XP using this method when he was well past 60. Depending on how bright the sunlight is determines which glasses you need to wear. Might help for you. Sure helped me shoot irons longer. If you need a new challenge, try smallbore rifle silhouette. That uses a lead boolit.

[Base534]

I know this an old thread but i have the same problems at age 50, front sight isnt sharp for me anymore. What i found instead of using the store bought readers or those irritating bifocals is a whole lense magnifier. They are safety glasses and you can get them in a selection of powers. I ordered mine in +1.50 and they are great.
Heres a link if anyone is interested :
http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/...y-Glasses.html

[hiram]

Base---

Will these glasses magnify at a farther distance than reading glasses?

I found what looks like the same magnifiers for less $ and a greater choice of mag power at http://www.oxarc.com/desc.ydev?prod_id=17413