Building Match .45ACP Ammo?

[Forrest r]

The Mihec h&g #68 clone.

Every time I’ve ever made any match grade ammo it always started with the boolit. It didn’t matter if the ammo was for rifles, pistols or shotguns, what was going out the business end of the firearms made all the difference in what components I used.

I saw the design of the Mihec 68 clone & about died!!! Maybe it’s just me but that mold is light years ahead of everything else out there. Why do I think that boolit/mold is so advanced? Because it has the best characteristics of heavier 200gr swc’s & the shorter nosed lighter 185gr bullseye boolits. The Mihec 68 clone design allows the caster to make/cast the ever popular h&g 68 clone but also has the small hp pin that casts a boolit that has the longer nose with the center of mass set back closer to the boolits body just like the shorter nosed boolits. I sold the Lyman 2 cavity 452460 & 4 cavity 452488 molds that I used for years along with a Lee 6 cavity 200gr rnfp mold & bought a 4 cavity mold from Mihec & began the process of buying all the components to make some match grade ammo built around that bullet. The Mihec mold I got throws solid point boolits weighing 194gr & .454” and the hp version is 186gr & .454”. I weighed 100 of each boolit when I first cast them and the solid point boolits had a .9gr variance & the hp boolits had a 1.1gr variance that was pretty impressive to me. So after buying the mold I bought the rest of the components to make the match ammo.

Things I bought:
Springfield armory RO (yes I bought a 1911 to specifically shoot this boolit)
Match grade brass
Lyman m-die
Ben’s red lube

I won’t go into any details about the Springfield RO other than I came highly recommended as a no frills target pistol.

The brass:
I contacted GI-brass & told him what I wanted to do and he sent me 2000 WCC once fired match cases. I sold off some 45acp brass as range brass (which it was) to pay for the match brass. Upon receiving the brass I weighted each case on an electronic scale, trimmed each case & uniformed the flash holes/primer pockets. I culled any light/heavy cases, cases that were too short & cases that had deformed primer pockets.

The m-die:
I’ve loaded the 45acp for decades & the only thing I’ve ever found that could give me any trouble was not starting the boolits straight in the cases when seating them & the wrong crimp. The m-die creates a little shelf/step in the brass that makes it extremely easy to keep the boolits straight when loading them.

Ben’s red:
I’ve made several different versions of lube over the years but never a soft lube. I was blown away by everything I read about Ben’s lube, it just seemed to have all the qualities I was looking for. I view boolit lube not only as a lube but a gasket also & this soft lube seemed like it would be the cat’s meow for soft shooting, soft lead boolits. I made a double batch of it without ever trying/testing it. All’s I can say is thank you Ben!!!
200rounds of p+ 200gr lswc’s lubed with Ben’s red down the tube & 1 tight fitting patch to clean the bbl. The target loads looked the same so I heated the load up & used the same soft lead target bullets loaded to p+ levels with the Ben’s red lube.

Attachment 59592

I won’t get into how to test for boolit/bbl fit (plunk test) or what powder & primers to use. I will tell you what I used and did. I decided to use bullseye powder; it’s been used for years by countless 1000’s of bullseye shooters. What I did for the oal & the finished boolits.

Attachment 59593

I used the WCC cases, Winchester primers & the solid nosed Mihec 68 clone boolits and made up 20 loads of each:
3.6gr bullseye
3.8gr of bullseye
4.0gr of bullseye
Shot from a wood table with a rolled up towel for a rest & 50ft.

Attachment 59594

Well that was that, a lot of reading/studying/homework along with casting, case prep, lube making & reloading. That load will easily hold the x-ring on the b-16 NRA slow fire targets @ 25yds. Keep in mind that this is the solid point h&g 68 clone, the target hp version with the center of mass set back further will put the solid point to shame @ the 50yd line with 4.0gr of bullseye.

I’m sure that some people will say that trimming the cases was over kill or that uniforming the flash holes/primer pockets wasn’t necessary. Or that any lube will work, range brass is fine, ect. At the end of the day I did what I did and when I put everything together it took 15 minutes of reloading/testing to have a quality match load.

I suggest you do the same, read, study & then read some more. I went with the Mihec version of the ever popular h&g #68 clone that has the hp version of that boolit. Another interesting boolit I was looking at was the 155gr swc with the small nose/al drive band boolit body look.

Good luck

[Willbird]

The front band on the 452460 is a bore ride,and in a hard alloy like Lino that might work very well indeed, and the bullet was designed when a lot of cast bullet shooters used Lino because it was easily acquired and casts really nice. I guess my point is not rule out a HARD 452460 because I know it will work well, that gun has a Clark barrel.Also I do agree an M de is an important step .

[Willbird]

My gun is a really tight gun so it is not picky on loads, gunsmith said to focus on bullet quality and I agree, his opinion is pistol accuracy in a good tight gun is all about bullet quality.

[40Super]

I'm shooting right now in an indoor league. My load that has consistently turning in the highest score so far is my original #69 , I started with 5.0gr Hp-38 but found better groups using 6.0 gr SR 7625. In the last three weeks my score went up 1 point each week, that's consistent !
For my scoring rounds I inspect each bullet for a perfect fillout and sharp, square base, plus weigh the pile and pick out all in the same weight +/- .1gr. My alloy is from a large old(1970's) ww that I mixed batches of 50 lbs together so all ingots are the same. Running 16 to 18 bhn aprox after aging .
All my brass is same h/s, trimmed to same length and square. I use cci or Fed gold match primers. Whether all that is needed I don't know. This loading is working great in both my 1911 and XDM45.

[cgm]

Bigslug......

All the advice you have gotten here is probably very good and I can't argue with any of it. However, my only comment is that you should not obsess over reloading techniques and "Theoretical" accuracy potential of a particular bullet/load. You will not be using a ransom rest or shooting off a bench....

Bullseye with a pistol is not bench rest with a rifle! Remember....You are shooting one handed (lots of wobble) at a target 50 yards away with (depending on your age) diminished eyesight! Managing the wobble in your hand as you start the trigger squeeze is FAR more important than anything you did to your bullet when you reloaded it! Then... at the short line, things get even more interesting cause you have to get those 5 shots away in 10 sec's as your gun is moving all over the place after each shot!

My advice to you is to focus more on practice and trigger control than anything else. Spending time sorting brass and measuring bullets is a waste of time, assuming you have a reasonable load (200 gr SWC with 3.7 to 4.0gr of BE).

I belong to a club in south fl where we have a match once a month. Our group is about seven to eight shooters. Our scores range between high 700's to a high of about 825 with the 45). We have often had this discussion and, just for fun, often trade ammo and pistols amongst ourselves. We have not noticed any measurable differences in average individual scores.

Bottom line.... practice is what makes the scores. Don't go crazy with your reloading and enjoy the humiliation!

[tonyjones]

"...enjoy the humiliation". That is excellent advice.

Tony

[Willbird]

I think a gun and a load that shoots like a bench rest rifle can have a powerful impact on the shooter, and if you look at 2700 (3 guns, 22, center fire, and 45) the 22 scores are higher...because they are more accurate ( mechanical as well as in the hand), and matches are typically not won by points, they are won by x's . Take two shooters roughly equal, ne with a 3" gun one with a 1" gun and put both on the 50 yard line.....then switch guns out, the difference in scores will be visible I bet. Many places you end up practicing slow fire at 25 yards....when you start cleaning those targets, then upping the x count.....then you drop 9 in the x ring......every advantage mental and mechanical is a help landing that tenth x .

[Bigslug]

Lots of good intel so far.

Forrest r: Sounds like you got into this game about as deep as I got into Highpower. Brass prep is something I'm long familiar with. I've got a steady source of once-fired that makes happy blasting ammo through the XL650. I guess it's time to measure and inspect a bit to see just how medieval I need to get on the stuff. M-dies and Ben's Red - already acquainted.

Willbird: As one who gets the reference, nice signature line.

CGM: Yeah, I hear ya. Came to many of the same conclusions with regards to Highpower - namely that operator error in position shooting largely cancels out a lot of the finer points of ammo crafting. All the same, I'm glad that I know about turning necks, uniforming primer pockets, and sorting cases by weight even though I no longer do these things very much. There is undoubtedly a happy medium between generating ammo that meets your abilities and becoming a slave to the loading bench. Can't find the medium until you play at the extremes.

[40Super]

The way I look at it, is if you make your gun and ammo that will shoot one ragged hole then you KNOW any misses are the shooter. If your ammo is shooting 3" at 50yrds, then every shot can be off by an 1.5" before you even pull the trigger. Ive run into many local rifle guys that won't sight in their gun on a rest because "they won't have a rest in the woods". Well how do you know if that flier or 6"group is the gun , ammo, or shooter? Everyone enjoys doing different thing in different ways. Some like to do the extra effort, if for no other reason than piece of mind. Regardless of what is done to the gun or at the loading bench, it won't make any difference if the shooter doesn't practice, practice, and practice some more. For building up those fine arm stabilizing muscles I practice with those rubber exercise straps, stand on one end with the other gripped with your shooting hand. Try it ! It helped me with my wiggle.

[35remington]

A pull back toward reality:

The 45 ACP pistol is in fact insensitive to the more anal reloading practices like primer pocket uniforming and flash hole deburring. Remind yourself that the gun has a barrel that is loose and free to move in relation to the sights from shot to shot. There is only so much the gun can do towards accuracy, and the most accurate loads obviously somehow make the gun return to battery the same from shot to shot. Beware of micromanagement and direct most of your attention toward good bullets and loading them, undamaged, in good cases.

The world's most accurate 1911 45 ACP target pistol cannot and will not meet my minimum standard for a small game hunting load of 1 to 1.5 inches at fifty yards that I set for my rifles. This simple reality puts things in proper perspective in terms of anal retentive case preparation procedures. Most grouping problems, assuming the shooter can shoot, arise with the gun if the bullet is decent.

Most match winning loads are a matter of record. Peruse what is most popular for the 50 yard line and note the profusion of shortnose SWC designs. I would encourage you to try a variety and see what works. Past records often indicate the best chance at good future results.

Many of the old style SWC's have large lube grooves and some of the better lubes result in an accuracy loss as there's just too much of it. Try the new tech as well as the older formulas and see what works better.

I agree that the short line does not have the premium on accuracy that the long line does. Here another bullet design may suffice just as well in a practical sense as the most accurate.

Using jacketed bullets in matches at the 50 yard line very common when shooting the more significant circuits. Again, peruse the usage of the higher scoring shooters and the gov't teams to see what they use. The reason for so doing is that despite the best efforts of most casters the commercial jacketed bullet is more uniform that the majority of cast bullets. This is hardly groundbreaking information. Just simple fact.

In a practical sense though, the shooter's ability is the most limiting factor, then the gun, then the bullet, if the bullet is cast halfway decently.

[fecmech]

If your ammo is shooting 3" at 50yrds, then every shot can be off by an 1.5" before you even pull the trigger

A 3" 50 yd 1911 will put you pretty high up in the classification system before it begins to hold you back! Nothing wrong with a very accurate load and wanting one. But if I have a 3" 50 yd gun, until I was averaging about 270 I'd be looking other places for improvement.

[Forrest r]

I appoligize for being sooo anal about my case prep for the 45acp. I just thought it might be a good idea to make any flash holes that looked like cat’s eyes round & to discard cases that weighed 75gr compared to the others that were in the 90gr range. Of to discard the cases that were 25/1000 or more shorter than the others.

I truly had no idea that the 45acp was that “insensitive” to these kind of case issues or I never would of wasted my time with my initial (1 time only) case inspection/prep. Nor would I of recommended anyone else be that anal as to get a lot of brass & inspect them for defects.

[Willbird]

A 3" 50 yd 1911 will put you pretty high up in the classification system before it begins to hold you back! Nothing wrong with a very accurate load and wanting one. But if I have a 3" 50 yd gun, until I was averaging about 270 I'd be looking other places for improvement.

I did not have a target gun (needed a 45, had 22 and 32) and I wanted one, why settle for second or third best then have to upgrade later ?? Why NOT learn how to make truly good bullets ?? Why NOT investigate what matters and what does not in the process ?? If what you said were true then most Model 41's on the line would be firing federal bulk pack from Walmart not Eley .

To each their own ....only accurate pistols are interesting . At that same time frame of my obsession with Bullseye pistol I had a Davis 22 magnum over under derringer, on a good day at that time I could keep the lower barrel in the 10 ring at 25, got 3 x's and 2 10's in a 5 shot group one day . Our monthly league was a 900, 1/3 of the 2700 course, all kinds of shooters, a few oddballs swore they could not shoot with one hand so used two, etc. But the Curmudgeons poked me and browbeat me, telling me I was a good enough shot to do it the "right" way...and they were correct . I used to shoot those matches as a kid with dads model 41 so they knew I could shoot .

We used a lot of the Alberts bullets in 38 and 32 wadcutter, but that co was sold off before I ever got to try any in the 45, my machine rest work with pure lead 452460 and looking at recovered bullets would lead me to think they would have worked no better, the land marks on a pure lead 452460 fired over 4.0 grains of bullseye measure 25% wider than the ones on a lino bullet. The pure lead bullets were good for 2" or so at 25 yards, not worthy of mention at 50 yards. Tried some slower powders but they were very dirty with un burnt grains everywhere, Trailboss might work tho .

All of that stuff gave a 23 year old kid something to do other than sit on a bar stool .

Bill

[Willbird]

I will say I never trimmed any brass, just used what I was pretty sure was all the same lot of federal brass.

[fecmech]

Why NOT learn how to make truly good bullets ?? Why NOT investigate what matters and what does not in the process ?? If what you said were true then most Model 41's on the line would be firing federal bulk pack from Walmart not Eley .

Nothing wrong with any of that and I said so.

Nothing wrong with a very accurate load and wanting one.

But I stand by what I posted, a 3" 1911@50yds will not hold back 90-95% of the guys shooting Bullseye. A 3" gun will shoot a "possible" on a 50 yd target with a high X count, IF the shooter can. It will also clean timed and rapid fire. As I said you have to be pretty darn good before that gun is holding you back.

[zomby woof]

and get a Kart barrel

[koehn,jim]

My solution was the best and smoothest trigger pull I could get and pratice and more pratice. I have always found that the harder I worked the luckier I get. I have also found that if I have done everything possible to tailor my loads to the weapon, the rest takes care of itself.

[edward hogan]

How tired and how old???


Can wholeheartedly endorse the barrel, link, & bushing sets from Kart. Really makes the difference! Can get primo accuracy from generic ball ammo with those. Like 400% improved. Look for a match recoil & FP spring kit. See the Sierra accuracy load data from current and all past books. Might want new rollpin for your Gold Cup rear sight. Ever lose one of those? I have...

Lots of fine drop-in parts from excellent custom houses at Brownells and Midway. The Cylinder & Slide three prong spring is very fine and easy way to tune-up a triggerpull. As far as loading, start w/all new components and match loads and eliminate the variables there. Just be sure your pistol will deliver right from the start. A box of match ammo if can find any will tell you much...

[35remington]

Forrest, work on the gun first while recognizing there's only so much that can be done to a 1911. That's what's limiting. The barrel in the tightest gun is loose and locks up a little differently from shot to shot. When I can shoot under 1 inch groups at 50 and 100 yards with unprepped cases in my 25-20 rifle using cast and jacketed bullets yet a 1911 45 ACP pistol with cases prepared any way you want cannot hold anywhere near that, this truly shows what is limiting in accuracy.......it's the gun, not the case prep.

Deburr the flash holes and uniform the primer pockets all you want. The gun won't notice because it and not the cases are the limiting factor. Having said that, if you truly got a batch of cases that varied 25 thousandths your particular lot sucks way, way more than average. Just don't expect any improvement from most cases with benchrest type case prep techniques. Because your "match" 1911 will at best shoot around 2 inches at 50 and maybe 3 to 4 inches at 100. Benchrest case prepping techniques matter on a benchrest gun.

Your 1911 target pistol ain't anywhere close "benchrest" grade. Again, it isn't that sensitive as to distinguish ordinary, nonuniformed primer pockets and ordinary flash holes. Would offer to put up my 25-20 with cases grabbed out of the box against your buffed and fluffed 45 ACP cases shot in your 1911 any day of the week.

It's about proper perspective and recognizing what matters and what does not. When you shoot less than 1 inch groups at 100 yards it may matter.

[Forrest r]

Get off your high horse & quit trolling, your the only 1 talking about the 50yd & 100yd line.

I posted groups shot @ 50ft & talked about 25yd targets, the only thing I ever said/mentioned about anything @ 50yds was that 1 of my boolits was better than the other at that distance. No group sizes, no scores, nothing, just 50ft targets & comments about 25yd targets.

Only a fool would tell someone to work on a $750 1911 to try to make it competitive @ the 50yd line.

Seeing how you keep bringing up 50yds & now 100yds, the same time/day I bought my 1911 for the 50ft & 25yd lines, I bought a Marvel unit 1 conversion kit. Why a marvel unit 1 instead of the cheaper plain marvel kit? Because the Marvel unit 1 is made to do an inch or better @ 50yds or it never leaves the factory. Anyone can put them on a $750 beater & have a 50yd 1911, my kit came with a .635" 5-shot group test target. Marvel tests there unit 1's with the cheap wolf target ammo. I just happened to have a couple of bricks of eley black box from a killer lot laying around & for some odd reason that Marvel conversion kit took a shine to it & shot a bunch of 5-shot bugholes @ 50yds with it.

Attachment 59871

You care to put your 25-20 with cases "grabbed out of the box" against some of my buffed match 22's? I'll gladely put the scope rail & scope back on it & show you what a 1911 setup for the 50yd line can do.


Your right, it's all about the proper perspective.
I know for a fact that "buffed" cases as you call them will shoot a lot tighter groups than mixed range brass or culled brass @ 50ft. Which for some odd reason happens to be the distance on the only target I posted.

How about a little more perspective.
I bought my 1911 to use/shoot @ the 50ft & 25yd line.
I bought the Mihec mold to use/shoot @ the 50ft & 25yd line.
I bought the marvel kit to use/shoot @ the 50yd line.
I did my test loads for targets @ the 50ft line not 50yds.

So you want to keep running your lips about a 1911 & how bad they are & 50yds fine, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. But quit putting words in my mouth or telling me what I'm doing won't work @ 50yds. I never bought the 1911 or the mold to use @ 50yds. I never did any test loads for 50yds or said that I did. I bought my 1911 to use @ the 50ft & 25yds line, that's what I did test loads for & that's all I talked about.

I did however buy the Marvel kit to use @ 50yds. If you want to ramble on about how it won't work, knock yourself out. But I suggest you bring a better rifle that the 25-20 & those bs cases to prove it or you'll be in for a long day.