Clips that work ... and some that don't

[bruce drake]

The Swedes already had the 6.5 Krag in production. Simple matter to convert to 6.5 Swede. Barrel making machines didn't have to be retooled. Same with the bullet manufacture plants. Sometimes economics has a say. Mauser would have charged them for the retooling.

This of course identifiews why their older rifles are in 6.5mm. Sweden was nuetral before WWII but was occupied anyways by Germany. The King of Sweden took great pleasure in riding around Copenhagen to see his people and creating fits for the SS crew assigned to "protect" him. There are stories of Swedish resistance teams messing with German supply trains and tampering with production of resources. Unfortunately there were a large number of Swedes that volunteered for the SS Viking Division and fought on the Eastern Front as well.

Bruce

[StarMetal]

There are some Mauser made M96's in 6.5 Swede. Who did Germany make those for? I've seen more then one at gunshows.

I'm not familiar with the 6.5 Krag, I know of it, have seen them, but have not handled the ammo. Is the ammo rimmed?

Joe

[Bob S]

Bruce:

I think you're thinking of Norway. AFAIK, Sweden was never "occupied". The 6.5 x 55 cartridge was a joint development by Norway and Sweden. In the 1890's, they were loosely confederated as "The Kingdom of Norway and Sweden". Early versions of the cartridge were rimmed, but AFAIK, all Nowegian Krags were made in the rimless 6.5 x 55 that we all know and love. (but I could be wrong, I don;t have my Krag book here at the orifice) The Norwegians opted for the home-grown Krag over the Mauser, tho, and really pissed off the King.

The Norweigians retained a lot of the K98k's that the Germans left behind; these were rebarreled to 30-06 after the war; and later rebarreled again to 7.62 x 51. A guy that I used to work with was born and brought up in Norway; he was ten years old and living in Oslo when the RAF bombed Gestapo HQ there, and he had a ring-side seat. He aslo served in the Norwegian Navy in the late 50's, and he told me that he had to qualify with a 7.62 x 51 K98k at 300 meters.

Joe:

Why didn't the Swedes like th K98k? Well, the ones that were chambered in 8 x 63 would kick the bejesus out of you. Remember it was a heavy MG cartridge, practically a magnum. Even with the muzzle brake, it must have been a monster to fire. It was only issued to MG crews. The regular M1939 carbines ... it was unfamiliar t the troops, the different ammo made for logidtics problems. What else ... who knows?

Mauser Oberndorf made both M1894 Carbines and M1896 rifles for Sweden in limited quantities, until Carl Gustaf got tooled up and up to speed to produce them domestically. I have an Oberndorf 1899-dated M1896. Mauser Oberndorf also produced a near-clone of the Swede M1896 for the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg in 1900. I think they made a total of 1000 (?). Those are rare birds.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[bruce drake]

Bob,

you are correct that I was confusing Norway with Sweden. King Haakon was the guy tweaking the German's nose everyday. And the Swedes did have resistance teams and collaborators unfortunately.

Bruce

[StarMetal]

Bob S

Here's one for you. The same friend that gave me the supposely Springfield clips has a last ditch German 98 Mauser. Alot of guys think only the Japs had last ditch rifles, but the others did also. What makes his rifle so valuable? Well the war with Germany was over in April, this rifle was made in March. Besides that it appears unissued. I saw it, cause I was one that didn't know Germany had a last ditch rifle. The stock is laminated and just routered out, not sanded or anything. All metal furniture is stamped the rear sight is non adjustable and pretty much like the Jap last ditch rear sight. A guy at a gunshow a few years ago offered him $1300 unseen. He asked me if I can find out more about it and what it's really worth. I can't, perhaps you can.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Bob S,

Forgot....I thought the 6.5x55 Swede would be alittle much for a Krag action?

The same friend that has the last ditch rifle asked me one day long ago to go to the range with him. Wanted to show me something about German ammo. He brought along a K98 to fire it. He said stand back and observe the rifle when he fired it off the bench. He goes here's group A. Boom! Muzzle jumpe up a little, really pretty normal. No really visible muzzle flash. Then he goes here's group B. BOOOOOOOOM!!!! The muzzle jumped up a good two feet or more and there was a giant orange fireball out of the muzzle. He asks "Whatya thinik?" I said yup, that's machinegun ammo. That was what we were talking about when we went to the range. Moral of this? Well you talking about that 8x63 machinegun ammo, I could imagine how it kicked after watching my friend shoot regular 8x57 machinegun ammo.

Joe

[Bob S]

Joe:

Ludwig Olson's Mauser book has a whole chapter on the Nazi "last ditch" rifles. Some of them were pretty crude. Maybe the survival rate isn't too high and that's what makes them "desireable" to some folks.

The 6.5 x 55 is loaded to about 40-45 KSI max; not much more than our .30 Krag which was 40 KSI max, 38 KSI nominal, IIRC. The other important factoid is that the Danish and Norwegian Krags have two locking lug whereas ours has only one. On the European rifles, the long "guide rib" on the bolt that serves as the "safety lug" on the US Krag is made to bear on the receiver ring on the Danish and Norwegian rifles, so it does take part of the thrust. On the US rifles, it's supposed to clear the receiver ring by .010" or so: it therefore takes no thrust of the discharge unless something up front has gone "wrong".

More "Krag trivia": the Norwegian Krag barrel threads are *left hand*! The Danish Krag's barrel threads are *tapered*, like a pipe thread, but at least they are right handed!

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My mates was a FN action and mine is a 42 Oberndorf (Mauser Mauser or Mauser squared?, lol). I guess they will use the 8mm clips. I gave my mate some old mauser clips which I was told years ago that they were 7mm clips, big jam. I haven't tried clips in mine. Have to hit the range, you can play at home and things work ok, but when you get outdoors and start shooting, things change and problems emerge I have found..

[Frank46]

Floodgate, thanks for the info. I think the author of the article got his wires crossed. Who would use corrosive primers in this day and age. Cheap is not always so good. Frank

[Buckshot]

.............BobS, just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your informative post, and appreciate the time and effort it took to get it all put up. Even though it was on Military Rifles, I really didn't bother reading it until yesterday as I'm not particularly interested in stuff that takes "Clips"

Now had you said 'Strippers' in the title, I might have looked in just a bit sooner, HA!

..................Buckshot

[JDL]

Bob, I too, as Buckshot, hadn't looked early enough at your very informative post. I'll have to start looking a little closer so such things won't slip by. Thanks for posting!