Trying to get back into casting, need advice

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Howdy ya'll,

I was not sure where to post all these questions in one post, so I'm posting here. I hope nobody minds.

I was on the board here a year or so back as DaveInOakwoodGA. I was getting close to being ready to start casting bullets. I had acquired the following, based on recommendations from this forum:

a turkey cooker
a couple of cast iron dutch ovens
a top notch ladle
a top notch thermometer
a set of stainless steel implements to clean the with during step 1
several zip loc bags of saved up candle residue
a zip loc bag or two of cheese sealing wax (for lube making later on)
a 20 gallon propane tank
a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights
several buckets of lead sheathing from a dentist's office

Then I moved and things went to hell in a handbasket and I haven't been able to get anything done related to casting. Finally, all that's over with and I can get back to things I'm interested in.

My perspective on casting has changed a bit as I've had time to think things through a bit more. Originally, I wanted to use the Lee "tumble lube" type molds and use the Lee Alox to simplify things. Now, I'm thinking I'd rather go a bit farther and make my own lube as well as do the lube sizer thing. I plan to cast only for two calibers (.45ACP and 9MM) initially and make a large quantity of bullets.

I need assistance in a few areas:

One, I need help picking two molds, one for .45ACP and one for 9MM. I'm shooting out of 1911's and a Browning Hi-Power clone. I want to cast with a "six at a time" mold and I would prefer to use an "old standard" that's known to be effective for each caliber. I'm thinking an H&G #68 LSWC 200grainer for the .45ACP and I honestly don't know for the 9MM. I'm also thinking Lee molds if possible, because they're less expensive in the 6-holer version than most and the folks here seem to be happy with them, once they're leemented.

Two, I need help picking a lube sizer. I don't know much about them, though I've read a bit on the forums lately. I want to use the felix lube and I live in NorthEast Georgia, a pretty warm place most of the year. I'm thinking I might could get by without a heater, but would be smarter to buy a luber sizer that could have the heater installed later if I so chose. Any comments or recommendations? I really want to buy only once on these items and I'm not sure where the value point is for these. I notice the Lymans seem pretty popular, not sure about other brands.

Third, I need some recommendations on the ingot molds. My original plan was to use angle iron and have a buddy of mine cut it to length and weld it. He's had the materials a year and half and hasn't gotten it done, so I'm giving up and going to plan B, which is buying other molds.

Finally, I need to do all of the above using a reasonable amount of money, as I work for a living.

Thank you for your help,

Dave

[Dale53]

The Lee version of H&G's #68 is a good choice. I fired 75,000 rounds of a copy of that bullet in a five year period. Your .45 may have to be throated for it. However, most do not.

I have never loaded for the 9mm (I am a .45 acp man, donch' know?) but I would go for the 120 gr truncated cone in Lee's line up.

Lee's six cavity moulds are fine - you just have to understand with ANY mould that you are dealing with is delicate machinery. That includes iron moulds. A good idea is to read the "sticky" on Lee maintenance and then, if needed, do it.

Ingot moulds can get to be expensive although I prefer the "real" ones. I have Saeco, RCBS, Lyman and Lee. I like the Lee's best as they give you two sizes of ingots. However, many have hit the flea markets and bought muffin tins for nearly nothing. Stay away from the aluminum ones and you do not want tin plated ones. Plain sheet metal ones work best. You MUST support these because they may collapse when picking up and dump molten metal on you. Just leave them on the ground (concrete with scrap wood on top to rest on) until they solidify. Cast iron muffin tins and cornbread moulds are by far the best. None of the ingots really stack well, get an old ammo crate and use it to contain your ingots. Just be sure that you have it in place where you want it. It is hard on the back to try to move a filled one

If you are going to do pistols, only, nothing beats a Star lubber (three times as efficient as the others). However, every thing about a Star (now Magma) is expensive and that includes dies. However, no denying it, they are BY FAR the best (so is a Lexus, but not all of us can afford (or justify) one ). You can get by just fine with a late model RCBS or Lyman. RCBS has the best warranty. The dies between RCBS and Lyman are interchangeable. You can often find a Lyman or RCBS used. Used Stars are rare.

Another thought, tell your buddy you are now ready for the angle iron moulds and will be over to pick them up Tuesday. May work I had a friend make one up to cast five lb ingots. Work nicely when you start a new pot. I have several of the "regular" one lb moulds to go with them. You can have your buddy make different sizes. Just put the heat on him and let him kinow that you are now SERIOUS.

Good luck and welcome the the fascinating world of cast bullets.

Dale53

[rbstern]

Hey Dave, if you want to come over and try some of my admittedly small casting setup, you are welcome to. I use Lee's molds for a vareity of 38/357/9mm, and have some 357 iron molds you can try, too, just to get a sense for the difference. I am strictly a tumble lube guy for the time being. We can load up some 9mm and head off the the range to see how it works in your Browning clone.

Lemme know if you want to get together. Send me a PM.

Rich in Lawrenceville

[mooman76]

Beer and soda cans work good too but they have to be absolutely dry! If you have allot I cut the top off and fill each one 1/3 full and let them cool awhile. Then 1/3 more and again. I leave the aluminum on to keep the lead clean. Then when you need it the aluminum strips off easy with a pair of pliers and the lead is stuck a little but can be seperated fairly easy. I later started making ingot when someone gave me an ingot mould. After I got tired of that I used a 1 qt. cast iron pot filled about half way as a mould. It worked good because it's the same pot I cast oput of!

[454PB]

These are the Lee moulds I use that fit the description you posted:

Lee 356-125-2R #90457 for six cavity. Feeds well and is accurate, matches a hardball nose profile.

Lee 452-228-1R #90352 for six cavity. Same as above, matches weight and nose profile of hardball.

Lee 452-230-TC #90289 in six cavity. This is a truncated cone design, feeds well, and also works well in .45 Colt.

I made my own ingot moulds just as you described, 1 1/2" angle iron with end caps welded on. They hold about 5 pounds each when full. They are strong and $10 worth of material will make enough to handle a very large melt.

If you look around this forum, there have been a lot of recent posts about which lubrisizer is best, and I have some posted myself.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the information so far provided. Please keep them coming.

Rich,

Thank you for the invitation, PM with my phone number sent.

Regards,

Dave

[fatnhappy]

Since I see you are scrounging lead, you're well on your way.

back when I first started reloading I read a number of rags, decided on my equipment, bought a rockchucker and set forth. Then I realized I didn't know how to really set up the dies. Point being, an old timer helped me out and an offer like rbstern's is worth its weight in lead.

I'm not so sure your decision to start with lee tumble molds was faulty, but I think you'd be well served with a RCBS or lyman sizer. The dies are cheap and they're pretty simple, robust machines. (yeah I know guys, you broke the handle of your 450 sizing a 457132 but it's hard to argue the estate sale 45's on ebay).

I have a 4 moulds for the .45, the 452460, it's saeco clone the 451, a 225 TCBB saeco and a 452374. I've had very good results with the 460s. They both feed well and shoot well in my .45 but I seem to be the exception. All the 460 complaints I've ever heard were feeding related. The 452374 is never a bad choice.

[yodar]

DAVE

Nobody has mentioned MY ingot mould. It produces an ingot that can be stood on end 4 at a time in a Lee Production pot.

A simple Iron cornbread stick pan from WallMart. Cast Arn and an idiot proof ingot mould you dont have to order from Midway.

Nice thing about it is the exposed cooled lead on top displays a grey streak of contaminants in your alloy if you havent fluxed or strained enough.

I have two and I dont like corn bread. Their future is defined.

See me about a room temperature lube for pistols which IMO is less messy than Felix, simpler and cheaper and is what I use in my lyman luber sizer and is effective for rifle and pistol bullets. The recipe came from a professional cast bullet maker in Germany whose credentials are highly regarded on another CB-List I subscribe to


Yodar

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dale53,

"The Lee version of H&G's #68 is a good choice. I fired 75,000 rounds of a copy of that bullet in a five year period. Your .45 may have to be throated for it. However, most do not."

Do you know what the number is for the six ganger version of this mold is? I'm thinking I'd like the 200 grain version.

"Lee's six cavity moulds are fine - you just have to understand with ANY mould that you are dealing with is delicate machinery. That includes iron moulds. A good idea is to read the "sticky" on Lee maintenance and then, if needed, do it."

Sounds like a plan.

"Cast iron muffin tins and cornbread moulds are by far the best. None of the ingots really stack well, get an old ammo crate and use it to contain your ingots."

I'm thinking real strong on the ingot molds right now, for sure. I have several old ammo crates from that commie surplus ammo I've shot up. After serving in the US Army in Germany during the cold war, I get great satisfaction outta shooting their ammo up for fun. (grin)

"If you are going to do pistols, only, nothing beats a Star lubber (three times as efficient as the others). However, every thing about a Star (now Magma) is expensive and that includes dies. However, no denying it, they are BY FAR the best (so is a Lexus, but not all of us can afford (or justify) one ). You can get by just fine with a late model RCBS or Lyman. RCBS has the best warranty. The dies between RCBS and Lyman are interchangeable. You can often find a Lyman or RCBS used. Used Stars are rare.

Yes, I've already found I can't afford the star. I see lots of Lyman 45's, 450's and RCBS on ebay. Is there any danger in buying a used lube sizer vs. a new one? I can get the new stuff wholesale.

"Another thought, tell your buddy you are now ready for the angle iron moulds and will be over to pick them up Tuesday. May work."

I wish, unfortunately, he just had a heart attack. Sad too, the guy was a health nut and worked out all the time, dunno why he did. He survived and is in the hospital now. I pray for him.

"I had a friend make one up to cast five lb ingots. Work nicely when you start a new pot. I have several of the "regular" one lb moulds to go with them. "

At one time, I had a specific size in a four gang ingot mold I wanted to make, but I can't remember now the length of the 1.5" angle iron portion. Were to fit nicely in a .50 cal ammo can and a good weight to melt. I think was 11 inches, but I can't find the data.

"Good luck and welcome the the fascinating world of cast bullets."

Thank you,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

mooman76


" After I got tired of that I used a 1 qt. cast iron pot filled about half way as a mould. It worked good because it's the same pot I cast out of!"

Hey, now that's an idea. Do you know how much the lead generally ends up weighing?

REgards,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

454PB,

"Lee 356-125-2R #90457 for six cavity. Feeds well and is accurate, matches a hardball nose profile.

Lee 452-228-1R #90352 for six cavity. Same as above, matches weight and nose profile of hardball.

Lee 452-230-TC #90289 in six cavity. This is a truncated cone design, feeds well, and also works well in .45 Colt."

Thanks for the information on these. I'll check them out. First three digits mean caliber?, Second three mean weight ingrains? Last two digits mean bullet profile?

"I made my own ingot moulds just as you described, 1 1/2" angle iron with end caps welded on. They hold about 5 pounds each when full. They are strong and $10 worth of material will make enough to handle a very large melt."

I have the material. What length did you cut your angle iron to get the five pounds? I had planned on building a four ganger.

"If you look around this forum, there have been a lot of recent posts about which lubrisizer is best, and I have some posted myself."

I'm thinking at the moment, one that I can afford that'll do the job as cheaply as possible may be my best option. As I only plan to cast one bullet for each caliber, I'm figuring I may go cheap, get a lube size with dies for each caliber and not worry about it. I don't plan on loading for rifle at this point. "Baby steps" are the order of the day and maximum economy.

Thank you for your help,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

fatnhappy,

"Since I see you are scrounging lead, you're well on your way."

Speaking of scrounging lead. I need some advice on the best question or way to ask the service stations other than just saying "can I mooch your old wheel weights?". I keep running into they have someone who picks up their lead also where is the best place to look for lead? A busy city tire store or a small country outfit in the middle of nowhere?

"Point being, an old timer helped me out and an offer like rbstern's is worth its weight in lead."

I must admit, I'm majorly appreciating the opportunity. We're planning on getting together Tuesday morning. Luckily, we both run our own businesses and can schedule like that.

"I'm not so sure your decision to start with lee tumble molds was faulty, but I think you'd be well served with a RCBS or lyman sizer. The dies are cheap and they're pretty simple, robust machines. (yeah I know guys, you broke the handle of your 450 sizing a 457132 but it's hard to argue the estate sale 45's on ebay)."

I forgot I bought a Lee TL452-200-SWC mold. I'm definately going to try loading using that method first, but am leaning towards getting one of those estate sale 45's on ebay. Do most seem to be in decent shape and what's a reasonable price for one? I know reloading equipment pretty well, but am clueless about used and old casting equipment.

Thanks,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

yodar,

"Nobody has mentioned MY ingot mould. It produces an ingot that can be stood on end 4 at a time in a Lee Production pot."

Ok, I have a couple of Dutch ovens (no feet) and a Turkey fryer. Would it be worth it for me to enhance by buying a Lee 4-20 pot or should I stay with what I have? I do have a top notch ladle.

"A simple Iron cornbread stick pan from WallMart. Cast Arn and an idiot proof ingot mould you dont have to order from Midway."

I like that. What do the ingots weigh and how much do they cost at wally world? I hate shopping there, but would force myself if the price is right.

"Nice thing about it is the exposed cooled lead on top displays a grey streak of contaminants in your alloy if you havent fluxed or strained enough."

Now that's something that would definately be helpful to me as a newbie caster.

"I have two and I dont like corn bread. Their future is defined." So how many ingots do they make each?

"See me about a room temperature lube for pistols which IMO is less messy than Felix, simpler and cheaper and is what I use in my lyman luber sizer and is effective for rifle and pistol bullets. The recipe came from a professional cast bullet maker in Germany whose credentials are highly regarded on another CB-List I subscribe to."

I'd definately be interested in the bullet lube. Simpler and cheaper is good, I'm thinking.

Thank you,

Dave


Yodar[/QUOTE]

[carpetman]

Davein FloweryBranchGa---You have ladle and cast iron pot. I cast that way for years and then switched to a Lee bottom pour and like it infinitly better. For one thing the electric heat source is more convienient. Use the cast iron pot for smelting down wheel weights. I have never had a lube heater and that's because I used lubes that didn't require such. Started with Lyman luber and picked up RCBS cheap and dies and top punches interchange work about the same. RCBS may hold pressure a little better--except for the great RCBS warranty,not a whole lot of difference there. Ingot mold is a relatively minor expense. A cast iron ingot mold should last a lifetime unless you drop it. I do find the ingots from my ingot mold stack easy and are of conveinient size for adding to the Lee furnace.

[montana_charlie]

I had acquired the following...a top notch ladle

I've just been reading along as there's nothing I can add that others won't think of. But the ladle mentioned in that list of yours still has me wondering...

Would that be a Rowell ladle?
CM

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've just been reading along as there's nothing I can add that others won't think of. But the ladle mentioned in that list of yours still has me wondering...

Would that be a Rowell ladle?
CM

I think it is, yes. It was recommended to me by those on this forum. Seems to have a unique design.

Dave

[Dale53]

DaveIn FloweryBranchGA;
The Lee equivalent of the #68 H&G is "452-200-SWC. Six cavity mould # is 90310".

Dale53

[454PB]

Here is a picture of the ingot mould I mentioned. I didn't measure the length of these, but it's about a foot. This one is two welded side by side and then a handle applied to dump them. There is a one pound ingot for scale and one of the longer ingots. Since the ingots end up triangular, they stack compactly. This particular ingot is linotype, and if I want less than a full ingot, I just strike two ingots together and they break into pieces.

In the background is the melting pot I built. It's a piece of 4" pipe with a 1/4" plate welded on for a bottom. I ground a depression in the lip of the pot for pouring. I welded a piece of 3/4" pipe on as a handle and made it long enough to keep my hands away from the heat. When I built this, I was using a plumber's pot, and it got VERY hot in the course of melting several hundred pounds of ingots. It looks small compared to the turkey fryers, 6 quart S.S. pots, etc., but once it's hot, it holds the heat and melts lead as fast as it can be fed and dumped.

[yodar]

Dave

I think there are seven cavities in the Cornbread stick Iron thng. They list at $6.95

The cast sticks of lead feel like maybe 2#

I recommend using the dutch oven and turkey fryer burner outside to melt down your wheelweights and pour into the ingot moulds. Do NOT cast out of this pot , it's gonna be too dirty.

You want CLEAN alloy.Use the Lee production pot for casting form those ingots. Let NOTHING but refined, fluxed alloy enter your production pot

I use a large 2.5" Skillet for my wheel weight processing and use a 4" flat perforated stainless steel skimmer from a Restaurant supplu house to skim off the dirts, dross, clips, etc. The broader surface are and shallo aspect allows particles to float to the top quickly. I flux initially with Borax or boric acid and finally with left over alox-beeswax bullet lube. DO a search in the archives for a detailed post on my fluxing techniques. The biggest failure of new casters is to use too much flux and stirring the flux.

Do NOT stir Boric acid, borax, or Marvelux. They are supposed to cook forming a glassy crust which entraps particles and dirt for easy removal. Stir and you simply redistribute the crud you want OUT the alloy to the side of the pot where it will get right back into the alloy.

My lube I'm gonna describe is also in the archives as "Adrian's Goo" I will summarize it here:

1 lb beeswax
1 LB grease gun cartridge Lithium Grease from auto supply store

using a double boiler outside the house (this stuff STINKS!) liquify the grease and then add the beeswax to it mixing as throughly as you can. Do not go any hotter than 275 d F (flash point of the grease) read the "destructions" on the grease because the flash point MUST be defined.

Pour into capped thin-wall 1" PVC tubes held on a 2 x 4. A 1/4" hole in the cap is used to hold a 1/4" dowel rod up the center of the PVC to make the center hole in the grease stick when it solidifies.

This is a soft, slightly tacky lube that has worked on rifle and pistol bullets not pushed past civilized limits. no P+ stuff!

Yodar

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dale53,

Thanks for the number of the mold.

454PB,

Those are a couple of interesting designs. Your mold is exactly the one I planned to construct as a four gang mold for ingots, except my buddy didn't get it done and now is having heart problems, so I may have to go to plan b. I really like the melting pot design. I'd copy both if I had a welder. Speaking of a welder, what type of welder does it take to do that type of welding?

yodar,

At that price, it looks like cornbread molds is plan B for me to "git er done." Thank you for the information. 2 pounds an ingot sounds like a good weight to me, at least it's one I can keep up with the number on and easiliy handled.

"I recommend using the dutch oven and turkey fryer burner outside to melt down your wheelweights and pour into the ingot moulds. Do NOT cast out of this pot , it's gonna be too dirty."

I have more than one dutch over, of varying sizes. I'll use the new one for casting and the old one for handling wheel weights.

"You want CLEAN alloy.Use the Lee production pot for casting form those ingots. Let NOTHING but refined, fluxed alloy enter your production pot"

Sounds like good advice for my long term plan, which is to get a Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot per other discussions I've read on the forum.

"I use a large 2.5" Skillet for my wheel weight processing and use a 4" flat perforated stainless steel skimmer from a Restaurant supply house to skim off the dirts, dross, clips, etc."

I bought an inexpensive stainless steel set that has the skimmer in it, so I can use that, assuming it's strong enough. If not, I'll try to locate a supply house for a better one.

"The broader surface are and shallow aspect allows particles to float to the top quickly."

My one dutch over is fairly large, I wish I had a cast iron frying pan now and I can look for one at the local flea markets, etc.

"I flux initially with Borax or boric acid and finally with left over alox-beeswax bullet lube. DO a search in the archives for a detailed post on my fluxing techniques. The biggest failure of new casters is to use too much flux and stirring the flux."

I have some leftover candle wax from my old lady's candles. Would that do? IF so, how much to put in the mix?

"Do NOT stir Boric acid, borax, or Marvelux. They are supposed to cook forming a glassy crust which entraps particles and dirt for easy removal. Stir and you simply redistribute the crud you want OUT the alloy to the side of the pot where it will get right back into the alloy."

Thanks for this information. I didn't know this. Will do.

"using a double boiler"

My wife has been looking for a double boiler for 3 years now and hasn't been able to find one, new or used. She'd kill me if I found one, then used it to make bullet lube. Is there an alternative to a double boiler?

"This is a soft, slightly tacky lube that has worked on rifle and pistol bullets not pushed past civilized limits. no P+ stuff!"

So this would just be the ticket for 9MM and 45ACP, eh?

Gentlemen:

Thank you for all the information you're providing. I'm getting a lot closer to being able to cast boolits and once again, cut my reloading costs down. I'm finding the overall hobby very rewarding. I'm hoping boolit casting will enhance that reward and one day I'll make cast boolit loads for my tiny handful of milsurps.

Regards,

Dave