Questions on several things......

[JSH]

First off you guys have all been of great help to me. I am by no means an exspert but feel I have a gained a vast amount of knowledge on more than casting, along with sparking my interest in vintage milsurps.
So once again I may have overlooked this, so if I have please direct me. Also if there is some way to direct this to the cast pics would be nice.

#1 What are the letters before or after the mold #?
Example I just picked up a 358429AX. What does the AX stand for?
#2 I still find a few missing bullets from Lyman on the cast pics. Is there some
place I can find these? Example, 314299.
#3 I am looking for pics of the Saeco and RCBS lines. These are handy to look at
when reading on some of the subjects, thoughts and ideas found here.
Example "The more I look at it the more i think that Saeco #315 is the best
design (potentially) for a target bullet"
Have NO idea what it looks like, my catalog shows #'s but no picture.

Just curious as I have been on the search for THE bullet for use in the 03 and the Krag. I have been reading what I can on this subject and the above questions came up. I figured if I didn't find much on the above others were having the same questions as I.
Just ran across the 358429AX last week at a shop I stop at once or twice a year. The fellow made the comment to the effect that he had some old ones with holes in both ends. Fellow bought them all to make fishing weights with,OMG. Comment was also made that CB's were only good for really mild pistol loads. I still have not used the GB 6 banger of the 358429, will be interesting to check the two against each other.
Jeff

[MT Chambers]

JSH..... If you go to the REDDING site does it not show all the SAECO bullets? Same with RCBS?

[MT Chambers]

JSH...Yup, just tried it.....dialed up Redding..then clicked on SAeco and voila...the first bullet I saw was Saeco #315 and Bobs your uncle!!

[carpetman]

JSH---I dont know what AX stands for,but it spells AX and would be XA backwards. Glad I could help.

[floodgate]

JSH:

1. On the mould numbering system, I made the following post a couple of days back; will just "cut & paste" it here:

"A brief summary of current Lyman mould markings. Of the six-digit numbers, the first three are the (very!) nominal size-to diameters, and the last three started in a chronological sequence in 1896-7; we call the latter ones "cherry numbers", as that is how Ideal's John Barlow kept track of his mould cherries. For the low numbers, what used to be #3118 is now #311008 - six digits to keep the computers happy. But many of the cherry numbers from dropped designs were recycled; an old short-range #3089 for the .30-30 was dropped early-on, and was revived many years later as #3589, the .35 caliber "hammerhead" of lamented memory, then as #358009 until it, too, was dropped. In a very few cases, Lyman was able to pick a "cherry number" from the scrap heap that matched the bullet weight; an example is the Thompson SWC gas-check #358156, but this was not normal practice. Cherry numbers in the -400's and above are Lyman designs from 1925 on; the -500's were reserved for special - mostly custom - designs like the Harvey zinc-washer-based "Prot-X-Bores" and cores for his "Half-Jacketed Jugulars"; they are now into the high -600's.

Second, there should be matching one-, two- or three-digit numbers on each block; these - as I said above - are to keep the block pairs together after cherrying (a cherry is a contoured, fluted, hardened steel cutter of the shape of the intended bullet, rotated with heavy lubricant flow as the block halves are squeezed together in a double-acting vise, to form the cavity).

Other letters preceding or following the bullet number can be an identifier for a particular cherry of several for a specific bullet (like #311291AV), or can indicate "undersized": U- or -ES: "extra-small"; or, sometimes -S for "small"; "S" is also occasionally used for "short", where a shorter version of a particular bullet is made by inserting the cherry less deeply) . Where a bullet is available in multiple lengths/weights, the weight is also sometimes given in grains; I have a DC mould for #311241 cut - and marked - for the 125 and 150-gr. versions of this round-nose, plain-base .30-30 bullet.

A small, single number or number/letter combination may identify a particular tool operator; another letter which I can't recall just now ("C", "X" ???) indicates a mould that for some reason did not pass inspection and was sold as a "second"; a bunch of these came on the market in 1982-3, and those of us who have tried them generally have found them quite serviceable. The Lyman-made loose-block moulds from 1925 on (earlier "Ideal" moulds had the blocks integral with the handles) were marked "IDEAL" until around 1964, when Lyman decided casting and reloading tools were a major part of their business (formerly, they focussed on sights and Cutts Compensators) and changed the stamp to "LYMAN". In 1995, the factory moved a few miles, and the address changed from Middlefield to Middletown, CT. Starting in 1997, they began to add a stamped month/year date, eg,: 7/98 for July, 1998. Lots of information there, some of it still not fully understood.

That's just for the Lyman/Ideal moulds, my main specialty; other makers used different numbering schemes, a few of which have still not been fully "decoded". Modern-Bond had a truly weird system, but I won't go into that until you stumble across one."

The "AX" stamped in yours identified the specific cherrying cutter used on your mold (they probably have a couple on hand).

2. On #314299, this started as a #311299 for the .303 British, one of the early gas-check designs, in 1907 (Ideal Handbook No. 18) and was made until Marlin's Ideal production was shut down at the run-up to WW I, in 1916. It was picked up by Lyman in 1925-26 when they took over the Ideal line, and continued until 1980 when it was dropped, but with the influx of surplus military arms, was resumed in 1992 and is still in the line. The #314299 you have was added, as a new, larger version for the oversize bores of the .303's, 7.62 x 54R Russians, etc., in 1991, and is also still in the line, alongside the original #311299. The CASTPICS posting was made from the 1973 Second Edition of the Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbook", and is thus prior to the introduction of #314299. (Note that two pages, covering the bullets in the #313... to #321... range are missing from the CASTPICS page; unless Sundog has added them in the last few weeks.) The #311299 and #314299 are visually identical, except for (a) the 0.003" (nominal) difference in diameter; and (b) the slight (but very annoying!) cherry-to-cherry variations due to final hand-sharpening.

3. I can't help on the SAECO and RCBS mould lines, but I'm sure someone else here wiill respond on those.

floodgate

[Bent Ramrod]

The Handloader's Digests will have pictures of SAECO, RCBS and Lyman bullet designs current at the time of issue. Older issues of these can be found at gun shows and used book stores.

When you find THE bullet for the .30-40 and .30-06, please let the fraternity know. I have an ammo can almost full of .30 caliber molds and THE bullet still seems to be the latest one I've found and not tried yet.

[JSH]

JSH...Yup, just tried it.....dialed up Redding..then clicked on SAeco and voila...the first bullet I saw was Saeco #315 and Bobs your uncle!!

Bob's my uncle? If we speak of the same Bob I could only be so blessed. I will sooner or later best him at some kind of shooting disipline, just one time is all I ask,lol.
Ray, it is always a pleasure.

floodgate, thanks. I did read that and forgot about it. That should be a sticky IMHO as that is a question I believe is out there more than it is asked.

Bent Ramrod, I may have a few of those, never gave it a thought. I have a footlocker that is full of books someplace. I have yet to fool with the Krag. Why I would want to start this project is beyond me as I have several going now that make me scratch my head. 311299, NO, 314299, no 311284 makes me nuts. I realize that each rifle is like a woman and has it;s own quirks,likes and dislikes. A spitzer type bullet will not shot unless this is right. A bore rider will not shoot unless this is the right size. At times I feel we try to reinvent the wheel. Need to go back to the KISS theory. But, then again he who dies with the most tpys wins.
I will quote somthing to the effect, if the good Lord put me here to finish all the projects I have started, I will live forever.

Once again thank you gents.
Jeff

[Bent Ramrod]

JSH,

Floodgate's posting is an excellent treatise on the vagaries of mold numbers, but as a rule of thumb, when you see the first three numbers increase slightly and the last three stay the same, it's just a newer version of the same general design. Bullet designs, like some of the rest of us, tend to increase in girth as they get older .

[georgeld]

Jeff:

the trouble is: "the boy that dies with the most toys Still dies!!

[TAWILDCATT]

Floodgate:numbers for MODERN BOND=first three are bullet size.next numbers are mold numbers or cherry number.the letter must be series.
Belding & Mull first three is bullet size=next numbers weight of bullet
cat 1943 for B & M
M & B 1943.

midsouthshooters.com their cat shows lyman/saeco/lee

[floodgate]

TAWILDCATT:

You'r right on the Belding & Mull system, but the Modern-Bond code is different. The letter indicates the chronological sequence of the moulds IN THAT CALIBER; the first three numbers are the "size-to" caliber, but the following numbers are the LENGTH OF THE BULLET IN THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH. So, D-311955 is the fourth mold designed for .30-'06 and .30-40, sizes to .311", and is 0.955" long (150 gr. pointed flat base); a longer version (180-gr.) was available as D-3111145 (1.145" long); and in a 2-cavity with one of each length, it is cataloged (Mid-WWII edition, moulds available May 1944) as D-311955-1145. I have this one.

floodgate

[TAWILDCATT]

Floodgate:I just came back to this post.I have 3/4 M-B molds I will have to try your advice and measure the bullets.I was in error as I read the numbers with out knowing what they ment.thanks

(I love these)