Best lubes

[Marlin Junky]

KY Jelly... don't you guys in the south spread that on biscuits? I suppose you've heard that one before though.

MJ

[Ricochet]

Well, I should have, Ray! I am in need of that formulation these days. Back then that stuff was for coating holes in the ground so they could pull up little folks who fell in by some strange happening. That was all over the news 10 years ago? Around Waco? ... felix

A bit over 20 years ago, near Midland:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_McClure

[Marlin Junky]

Before we get too far off topic, maybe someone can provide input to post #39.

Thanks,
MJ

[leftiye]

Ideal heat treating happens at the highest oven setting that won't slump (begin to melt) yer boolits. I use 50/50 WW/pure and I heat treat at 450 degrees (by MY OVEN). At 475 in MY oven the bullets become blobs that vaguely resemble boolits. Any little shiny balls of lead smeared on the tray shold also be seen as being too hot.

[felix]

Yep, that name rings a bell, Ricochet! No kidding, KY Jelly was procured from every source in the state. It took an army of folks 'round the clock squeezing those little tubes. The factory making the stuff did not have a means to make a 55 gallon drum's worth in time from the factory. The factory did replace all that was used from each "store" at no charge, however. Big time news at that time, as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_McClure. ... felix

[carpetman]

felix---I doubt that a 55 gallon drum would sell to too many. Sure wouldnt get repeat business as they would soon be dead.

[felix]

I bet Walmart would have enough in little tubes in their warehouses (today) to easily make a 55 gallon drum's worth, especially using all of their customers just in one store for one hour! Too bad Walmart was just a bit smaller 20 years ago. I bet there were only 5 stores at the time in the entire Houston area. Gosh, as of right now, we have 5 stores here in Fort Smith, three of which are super centers. ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

This is a good thread. It basically shows that you must have the right tool for the job. And just because you fire lap anything, you are only covering two of the three variables for accuracy.

Finish, dimensional perfection and then barrel vibration are the three variables. I use the Tubbs kit for finish. I use lead for dimensional correction. But after everything, you still must deal with vibration.

I wrote in another post of how a match grade barrel was terrible as a 308 Win. But chambered out to a 308 Norma, this thing was astounding. The friction created by the internal finish established a vibration pattern that could NOT be reached by the 308. My 223 began life as a 220 Swift on a Match grade barrel. IT was lousy as a 220 Swift at 1 1/2". Cut off 2" and re-chambered, it is now 1/2" or less. The vibration pattern here went the opposite way.

No, you have to understand what you are trying to correct. But velocity isn't necessarily the enemy. It's pressure that does the cutting, polishing. You can cut worse with 600 grit than 220 grit with only a minor velocity change. And your powder selection choice is critical. Copper minimizes this. And the pure lead center does not produce spring back if the pressure behind it is low enough. But instructions with the TUbbs kit wants obturation the entire length of the bore, so velocity is higher.

Another potential problem with lead is that you are shooting at low velocity which produces low to no barrel vibration. This means that you cut a straight hole, (except for recoil) but this may be counter productive. Where a copper slug, running at closer to actual velocity ranges that you will be shooting will cut a hole that .... flows with the vibration pattern of the barrel. When you use lead, you will alter the vibration pattern that may make things worse. It depends on what that barrel needs to perform at the level you want to perform.

Handguns don't have barrel vibration. But they DO have recoil. As that slug takes time to pass, the gun is rising and that slug is cutting harder on the bottom portions of the bore. And the most common fear is that of a stuck slug. SO errors are made on the high side. Minor, but it is there. The end result is usually so dramatic in improvement for a bad handgun, that who cares about the extra cutting. A Tubb Kit at higher velocity minimizes this.

Clearly a Tubbs kit is for finish and for very minor dimensional issues. IF your problem was solely dimensional, chances are the Tubbs kit didn't complete the job. But it is also the most idiot proof system and therefore great as a first step in the diagnosis process. What if we guess wrong? If that fails, you can move to lead for Plan B to correct dimensional issues which will be .... more aggressive. You move up a sliding scale.

Remember, 10 - 12 BHN obturates with as little as 12,000 psi. That grit holding that slug back while it cuts holds that pressure up higher and longer than what we often think. And when it hits a constriction of any consequence, that slug slows dramatically and you cut more aggressively in front of the problem. So you first lap out the constriction or twist rate issue, and then you must lap out the barrel to remove the bulge you put in it. Plus, you run the risk of a stuck projectile if you are too slow. So there is no free lunch. But beginning with a Tubbs kit removes this potential problem as there is less reason to slow the lead slug if you need to do this later.

When you come to the point that you decide you NEED to do something, you essentially have decided the gain is worth more than the loss. I am comfortable with what I do and utilize this regularly. Clearly a fire lapped barrel with a Tubbs kit is superior in my eyes to the finest hand lap as it goes in one direction and only works where it is needed. Just like shooting a normal jacketed slug that fire laps too, just slower. But I have the flexibility to set the barrel back too if necessary.

Point of all this is to understand what you "think" you need to do. In the end it's a guess. But the last thing I want in a HV rifle is a tapered bore. But if the problem is blowby, like many handguns, then it would solve that issue. Again proper diagnosis is the key to problem solving for THAT barrel. The right tool for the job will bring about the best results. Hopefully.

[BABore]

What HT temp range does 50/50 (clip-on [CO] WW/Pb) respond to?

For example: I have some high tin content alloy (COWW metal and solder [bar and wire]) that air cools to BHN 17.5-18 and it doesn't harden when convection baked for an hour at 450F. Convection baking at 475F will bump its hardness into the 20-21 range after three or so days.

MJ

I use 435 F for one hour, then quench.

Lloyd,

In regards to the wear factor, I was basing this on straight WW alloy. Relativily high antimony to tin ratio as Felix said.

[Boomer Mikey]

I haven't tried them all but I have reduced my inventory to two lubes to simplify my needs.

For low to medium velocity (1800 fps) any of the 50/50 NRA formula lubes. The Lar45's lubes are an outstanding value and as good as any I've used. I have a lifetime supply of Felix lube supplied to me by a good friend and it works well too.

For everything else I use LBT Blue... it has never let me down. The only reason I tried many, many other lubes is because I ran out of it when it wasn't available, I keep at least 30 sticks of it in the drawer nowadays.

Boomer