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Thread: ??? loading .351 WSL - First Time

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    ??? loading .351 WSL - First Time

    I am loading .351 WSL for a 1907 Winchester and don't like the initial results. Any ideas? I made the cases from .223 Remington, cutting them off behind the shoulder, expanding, and trimming to length. I used a starting load of 16 grains IMR 4227. Bullets were cast from an NEI mould. I don't have the mould anymore, I will be switching to the Lyman bullet for this cartridge when I use up the NEI's I had already cast. It is a plain base bullet. I sized .350 in a sizer I had for .348 Win. Cases came out pretty dirty, which is about right for a starting load. All cycled the action. 3 or 4 appear to have pierced primers. All have pretty heavy firing pin strikes. I didn't notice any gas escaping. The 1907 Winchester is pretty much closed at the back end. Gun is a relatively late one, serial in the 53,000 range. Condition is excellent. First time I have fired this gun. I am concerned about the heavy firing pin strikes and pierced primers, I never saw that before. Primers were well seated.
    Any suggestions?
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    Thanks,
    Bruce

  2. #2
    Banned

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    cci makes a pretty hard primer cup.
    i have had different primers come out like that from 3.5 grs of powder.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I will see, I may have CCI primers. I think these were Winchesters. Maybe also try a few rounds of factory ammo, from my small supply. Any other thoughts?
    Thanks,
    Bruce

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    .401 WSL
    .351 WSL
    .30 Carbine


  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Can't offer any help but wanted to say I'm jealous! I've wanted one of these rifles forever! I love the old and so-called (they say) obsolete...you can tell by the 110 year old Webley revolver I carry when I'm off-duty! Will

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Hi Will,
    I thought they were pretty cool too. I got this one after missing out on several others. Then I lucked into a 1910 in .401 WSL about a month later. Still have to make up some ammo for that one. But I want to get this figured out before I start on another project.
    Bruce

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Doc_Stihl's Avatar
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    I have seen brass for the .351 made from 357 maximum with the rim turned down. 223 doesn't seem to have enough width at the case head to really seal and fireform without causing seperation issues.
    It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Stihl View Post
    I have seen brass for the .351 made from 357 maximum with the rim turned down. 223 doesn't seem to have enough width at the case head to really seal and fireform without causing seperation issues.
    I have the smaller .35 WSL rifle.In researching it I found that most indeed make cases for the 351 from the 357 maximum case.There was a good thread on here that went into details about making the cases and loads that worked.
    Thought that I would never find the old thread but here it is , lots of good info.Also Buffalo arms co. did have both the .351 and the .35 WSL ammo available.You may want to save your old stock.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...907+winchester
    After checking BAC is out of stock on both calibers , but it states that backorder is ok.Hopefully they will get more in.Keep us posted about your rifle.They are fun to shoot , I just wish it didn't sling the brass so far.
    http://www.buffaloarms.com/351_WSL_W....aspx?CAT=4445

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the old thread.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I didn't see what bullet weight you were reloading with. Another website lists 10.5/Unique/180gr. cast for 1565 f/s. Just on the basis of inverse proportion, 16 grains sounds sorta high. I wonder if you might be better served by using a slower-burning powder like 2400 or one of the 4227s. Another load, 19.0/2400/180, listed a velocity of 1870 f/s. This sounds about like factory for the cartridge, and probably came straight out of Cartridges of the World. It is possible that the converted .223 brass is thicker, yielding lower case capacity, thus higher chamber pressure, showing up as aberrant primers?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    The NEI mold is listed at 172 grains, I should have included bullet weight. Powder was IMR 4227, not Unique. 4227 is supposed to be the best choice for the WSL's. Quantity was a starting load from an old Lyman manual if I recall correctly. What concerned me was the heavy primer strikes. I think I will load up some more and try them in a different rifle, I have two 1907's.

  12. #12
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    Cuzinbruce you are using small rifle primers correct? I also have trimmed .223/5.56 and shot them with good results in my 351 WSL. The 5.45X39 Russian also had the right head size if you can fire form the tapper out I have never found any brass ones much less boxer primed ones! I found that maximum loads for a 357 Mag will cycle my guns action well these are probably starting loads but i have not tried to push the old gun.
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I forgot to mention i talked one person here that said his 1907 will not eject rimless .223 cases and there is some concern that they head space on the extractor and could break it i have cut a couple cases quite short and they do fire and function but that does show the extractor is actually holding the case for the firing pin. Just something to keep in mind i have loaded the same .223 brass 11 times with no issues and it is still good considering all of them had neck cracks when first fired i am getting good use from scrap!
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefly1957 View Post
    I forgot to mention i talked one person here that said his 1907 will not eject rimless .223 cases and there is some concern that they head space on the extractor and could break it i have cut a couple cases quite short and they do fire and function but that does show the extractor is actually holding the case for the firing pin. Just something to keep in mind i have loaded the same .223 brass 11 times with no issues and it is still good considering all of them had neck cracks when first fired i am getting good use from scrap!
    Are you annealing your .223 cases before you load them? Might reduce the mouth cracks.
    Listen! Do you hear it. The roar of cannons, the screams of the dying! Ahh! Music to my ears!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Grapeshot the cracks were in the 5.56 NATO cases i just trimmed them they did not crack when fired in .351 WSL the loads were not high pressure just enough to function the gun.
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    To add to this old post 7 years later I am now trimming the .350 Legend cases to use in the .351 WSL . The new case is .02" wider at the web and a better fit to the chamber . I did not use my .351 dies to load them I used a carbide 38/357 magnum die a lee universal case belling dies and a seating die for .357 magnum. Bullets were then crimped in with Lee Factory crimp die .

    In another thread I posted I tore my 1916 made model 1907 apart and found the buffer in poor condition and not doing the job . I made a new one from the head of a rubber hammer basic dimensions .67" diameter .315" (5/16" or 8 mm) hole in center with a height of .4" The .4 " height leaves a bit more gap then a good buffer another showed me however the gun functions well . After I do a bit of shooting I will see how my buffer is holding up and report .
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  17. #17
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    Cool stuff........
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
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