High Copper Alloys- Lets discuss this further

[DrBill33]

Has anyone used the copper-bearing babbitt from Rotometals as an alloying medium?

[Jailer]

Has anyone used the copper-bearing babbitt from Rotometals as an alloying medium?

Yes, it works quite well.

[357maximum]

I am cheap...I used the enhancing the RR babbit method so I did not have to spend any money......Jailer has shot that mix out of my 35Whelen as had Edd and a few others.....that gun and my 30-06 going full tilt both like the enhanced RR babbit...maybe some day I will try it the easy way with RotoMetals....prolly not as long as I can keep mooching RR babbit from Edd though.

[Dutch4122]

A simple way to use the copper Babbitt to enhance a basic alloy would be to use it the same as tin. Add no more than 2% to any alloy mix and you will see improvements in the way your alloy casts and shoots.

I would recommend 60% clip on wheelweights and 40% pure lead with no more than 2% copper Babbitt added in. If you are using a Babbitt that is mostly tin you will get all of the mold fill out benefits of the tin as well as the added toughness with malleability of the copper. Water drop the alloy for higher pressure/velocity rifle & pistol loads. Air cooled for pistol and low pressure/velocity rifle loads.

This is basically what we were doing in the beginning and getting better results than without the Babbitt. Then Badgeredd figured out what the copper was doing and how to balance the alloys; which led us to pushing the velocity/pressure window with better accuracy.

[btroj]

So 50 pounds of range scrap plus 1 pound of Rotometals 3 Babbitt would be a good choice? Maybe add a tiny bit more Sb to get above 1.5 percent or so normally in range scrap.

I need to order some Babbitt. I think this will make for some nice bullets.

[badgeredd]

zzzzzzz

[Whiterabbit]

Does babbit enhanced alloy shrink more or less than hardball or COWW?

[badgeredd]

hhhhhhhhh

[Jailer]

So 50 pounds of range scrap plus 1 pound of Rotometals 3 Babbitt would be a good choice? Maybe add a tiny bit more Sb to get above 1.5 percent or so normally in range scrap.

I need to order some Babbitt. I think this will make for some nice bullets.

Be ready to adjust your casting style, the copper enhanced alloy is a bit more difficult to cast with. At least it is for me. You need more heat to get good results.

I also had problems with my spout freezing. I could only get 4 pours before I would have to stop and take a fireplace lighter to the spout to get it flowing again. That's with .25% CU, maybe less would work better?

[btroj]

Thanks Edd. That gives me something to look into.

[Dutch4122]

One thing about these "copper enhanced alloys" that I found out right from the start; 700* - 750* and use the ladle, not the bottom pour. You will be very happy with the results.

My pot is set at 725* and I use a small Rowell Ladle for most molds/designs; and most of my molds are 4 cavity or larger. I have never had better results. Less than 2% cull rate, and most of those are in the 1st couple of casts.

Hope this helps,

[btroj]

Ok, my range scrap when tested a few years back was more like 1.8 percent Sb.

Using the alloy calculator I get 1 pounds #3 Babbitt, 50 pounds range scrap, and 1/4 pound super hard coming out to 1.8 tin, 2.06 antimony, .16 copper. Copper plus tin are darn close to equal with the antimony.

If I follow this right is alloy will want to be cast hotter than normal and is going to make bullets similar in size to wheel weights plus tin.

Allowed to age a few weeks to a month they should be tough and shoot well with some speed on them.

What say the MI crowd?

[badgeredd]

sssssssss

[btroj]

Ok, antimony plus copper should be close to equaling tin. That is easy to adjust to.

I may use Babbitt, range scrap, and a bit of shot to adjust the antimony.

Thanks Edd, you gave me exactly the info I needed.

This stuff will be made into a large batch of alloy specifically for 2000 fps loads in a 30 cal rifle. No wimpy loads will see this stuff.

[357maximum]

Brad


The alloy Edd is discussing is best in 2200++++++++ loads if waterdropped and aged 2 weeks+, but.....if aircooled you can get downright mean in a 357MAG type load with purpose built no gascheck design boolit AND maintain accuracy and bore condition. I have the plainbased version of the Larsen 180 doing about 1750 fps in my Marlin cowboy and it shoots better than my ability with the dovetail mounted peep.....half tempted to put a scope back on it just to remove "me" from the equation for a "what if" looksee.


My biggest issue so far with Edd's alloys was my own fault....what I was calling pure lead was not pure as it had alot more tin in it than I thought(lead waterpipe with the joints smelted in with the mix).....the boolits came out great, just had to be patient and wait for them to age a few months.....when I finally listened to Edd and got the mix balanced all this issue went bye bye....I simply switched to stamped pure lead ingots from a foundry and TADDAAAA all my "aging" and "growing" grief simply went away. I currently have a plainbased and aircooled Lee 340 grainer nudging on 2000 fps in my Handi Rifle 45/70 with almost cloverleaf accuracy for 5 shots...3 shots almost always make a lucky charm with the other 2 just outside enough to ruin the ragged hole.

When I first started playing with EDD's ALLOY I was only thinking about waterdropped boolits at 2.4+K, I am finding more and more accurate and effective uses for it all the time. While it will not magically fix a bad fit issue...it sure does shine when used properly. I have about 300lbs left from the first batches and I have the makings for a batch about 400lbs as soon as the snow melts away from my concrete block smelting enclosure. It is getting real close to "smelting" season....hopefully this weekend I will get R did and have enough Edd's Alloy for a couple 3 more years shooting without spending much for the alloy. The next smelt after that is gonna cost me some money...but it is darn well worth the spendin.

[btroj]

I mostly looking for 2200 fps plus alloy from the copper addition. The fact I could push the envelope with a plain base in other guns is a bonus.
With the rifle Tim is building I am hoping for 2400 to 2600 fps with good accuracy. The copper addition is certainly a tool I am looking at using to get there.

You guys have done a ton of work on this and we are in debt to you.

Now to tell my wife I need to order some stuff from Rotometals to make bullets with the new mould. That is the mould that got me a "whatever" when I asked about ordering it. That means there will be a future price to pay, I just don't know what it will be.

Thanks Mike.

[357maximum]

BadgerEdd and BaBore did most the work/and da thinkin....I was just a fortunate bystander for the most part.


UTT OHH....Female "whatever" normally not good.


My 35Whelen will shoot my redneckineered version of Edd's alloy and the BRP 35-225 at 2700FPS with 1- 1 1/4 in accuracy at 100 yards all day long....that load was not even hard to come by.......total lack of effort on my part. I backed it down simply because the "terminal" effect was a bit too nuclear on bambi. Simply adding in some of Edd's RR babbit to standard 50/50 was amazing...add in the CU enhancement and life with the 35Whelen Mauser is just plain "GOOD".

[MostlyOnThePaper]

I definitely enjoyed shooting it, Mike! Now that I have the 35/30-30 done I might have to start thinking about one of those. I've always thought the Whelan was somewhat under appreciated, and getting to shoot yours reinforced that thought, neat rifle.

Randy

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Of course with the number of rifles that I already don't shoot enough I guess I shouldn't get in any kind of hurry.

[btroj]

I am assuming that this alloy isn't likely to expand much on impact? I don't care about expansion but like the fact I understand it isn't brittle and therefore isn't likely to go to pieces on impact.

In reality Mike my wife is pretty damn tolerant with all this stuff. I have many things I could complain about but she isn't on that list.