Goex FFG or FFFG Powder

[Swamp Ghost]

All black powder shooters know that when you deal with Black Powder that the job is gonna be messy and foul a barrel quicker than the black powder substitutes will and require more swabbing. BUT !...That fun of black powder and gosh I sure love the smell of black powder at the range in the evening time

My problem has always been problems reloading. Now I have just recently added three more front stuffers to my black powder arsenal. Before all I had was a T/C Hawkens with a badly pitted barrel and it is no doubt that this pitted barrel was my problem with loading a following shot. I was just about having to scrape and swab the barrel after each shot in order to load a following shot. Talkin'bout a pain in the backside. Now like I said if you use BP your gonna have to swab the barrel here and there due to fouling,that's just how is it is with muzzleloaders. But here lately I have been using FFFG BP instead of FFG. Now here is my question....If I have a barrel that is smooth and in good shape which powder "FFG or FFFG" would foul the barrel less and be able to squeeze in more shots without having to brush/swab the barrel ? Or would either powder make any difference at all ?
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" Those Who Hammer Their Gun's Into Plows Will Plow For Those Who Do Not ....'Thomas Jefferson' "

[Nobade]

If you are talking about roundball guns, it shouldn't matter. If the ball and patch combo is correct, and you are using a sufficient amount of the right lubricant on the patch, you should be able to shoot for as long as you care to and not have to wipe the bore. Each patch does that for you when you load it.

Now if you are talking about shooting bullets, that's another matter. Likely you will find less fouling with FF rather than FFF, but it comes down to the brand of powder, how much of it you use, type of bullet, type and amount of lube, if you use an over powder wad or not, what that wad is, etc, etc. Only your own rifle can tell you by using it.

[Swamp Ghost]

I use factory patches. Can't remember the dia. of the patch. But,yes I use PRB over a 70 grain charge of Goex FFFg Powder. And I use a combination of Vaseline and Crisco grease for patch lube.

[DIRT Farmer]

Black powder should not be that messy. Leave out the vasoline and use stright crisco, or go to a tallow lube. I do use bees wax and olive oil on shotgun wads though and have no real problem even with 100+ shots in a round of sporting clays using B/P cartridge. The patch and ball combo should fit well enough to keep problems down.

[Maven]

SG, You may need to add beeswax to your lube, or try whipping up a batch of this:

Stumpy's Moose Snot: A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range. SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz. (Olive- or Canola Oil can be substituted)
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.


Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water or a double boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups. Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Note: it if is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it doesn't ooze out before it cools.


SG, As I didn't have castor oil on hand, I used olive oil and the resulting patch lube works great. E.g., last Sunday I fired ~21 shots from my rifle, using between 45gr. - 100gr. FFg, and never had to wipe between shots and experienced no difficulty loading.

[shredder]

[QUOTE=Swamp Ghost;1914203]All black powder shooters know that when you deal with Black Powder that the job is gonna be messy and foul a barrel quicker than the black powder substitutes will and require more swabbing.


I respectfully question this assumption since my experience has not borne this out. Real black was a revealation for me after 15 years of shooting substitutes since I always assumed the above to be true. For me, in my guns, with pyrodex select or rs, vs goex fff, the black is very much easier to manage. I use windex with vinegar diluted 50/50 with water for cleanup then condition with ballistol. Never going back to pyrodex!

[gnoahhh]

I too would drop the vaseline from the patch lube. The introduction of petroleum based products to the bore only makes for a messier fouling. Also, there's no need to have the patches sopping gooey wet with lube either (not saying you do). As for FFg vs. FFFg, the 3f burns with a tad more pressure given equal volumes of each which translates into a bit less fouling in my experience. I use 3f for everything rifle and pistol-wise, and only use 2f in shotguns and smooth bore muskets.

With a good smoothly rifled bore there should be no reason to not fire long strings of shots without stopping to clean, if using a proper patch/lube/ball combination. Certainly a few shots per day while hunting, anyway.

[Swamp Ghost]

{ Gnoahhh } I agree with dropping the Vaseline. I have always been told not to use petroleum based lubes , cleaners nor bore butter in a muzzleloader. I guess I'll just have to do some experimenting and try and find what I can use that I can fire at least 5 shots without having to swab the barrel and have to pound the patch&ball down the barrel. I've have gotten all types of lube recipes for all kinds of folks...even from an expert muzzleloader crafter. I'm gonna try the "Stumpy's Moose Snot" recipe that is provided above,And see how that works. Do you think that just straight Crisco would be the best bet ?
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“The fascination of shooting as a sport depends almost wholly on whether you are at the right or wrong end of the gun.”
― P.G. Wodehouse

[Hanshi]

I use Hoppes #9 BP lube and fire strings of up to 4 dozen shots without having to swab. I DO often swab the bore, however, after every ten or twenty shots but it is not needed with Hoppes, or even with spit. Some people swab after EACH shot and don't mind it a bit. Also the tighter the load the less fouling is left after each shot; the tight prb pushes the fouling of each shot down when seated. Hoppes makes this easy as it DISSOLVES the fouling, too.

I use 3F in all my guns from .32 up to .62; rarely is 2F used except in very particular loads. Fouling of each is about equal, anyway.

[mooman76]

Use the good ol spit patch. I never have to swab when I use that. Some say they get less fouling with fff and some with ff, it just depends on the gun and load combo and you really have to try and see to determine what is best for you.

[Maven]

SG, You can't beat the price of Crisco, so why not try it? However, try , say 12 patches lubed with Crisco v. 12 lubed with spit v. 12 lubed with Stumpy's Moose Snot. Make sure you clean the bore after each group of 12, of course. As you've no doubt surmised, many things have been and can be used as patch lubes, but some are superior. In warmer weather, I use spit patches, but for convenience, e.g., on a trail walk, I use patches prelubed with Stumpy's blend.

[Swamp Ghost]

{ Hanshi } Thank you, I will remember that. Hoppes #9 BP lube

{ Moonman 76 } Your exactly right...A spit patch does work wonders. I have only shot my T/C New Englander once. I cleaned the barrel very well before my first shot. And when it came time for my second shot,I like to have never got the ball down the barrel. I was using Crisco lubed patches. I like your quote....That kinda reminds me of a story I heard about some ghost that sports a Cherokee Tomahawk : )

{ Maven } I'm gonna try several different things...Like I have said before BP is messy and fouls real easily but I can accept that. My things is if I come into a situation where I have to use my muzzleloader as a self defense weapon I would like to at least wont to be able to first at least 10 shots. I was squirrel hunting on time with my CZ .22lr and had a little bit of a wild hog situation. If I would not have had my .357.....I'd been up the creek without a paddle. Here in Mississippi no additional firearm is allowed on your person during primitive weapon season. That's why I have to come up with something to where Im not having to beat a patch and ball down my barrel after only one shot.

[waksupi]

FFFg leaves less fouling. Use the right lube, and you can shoot all day, without fouling the bore. I like Moose Milk. Your lube combination sucks. I also don't like any lubes with beeswax in them, if you are shooting along string. I was at a shoot today, temperature around 20 degrees. You wouldn't have got a half dozen rounds down the barrel before needing a major heating of the barrel, and cleaning.
I use FFFg in everything, from .40 rifle, to 20 bore smoothbore.

[Swamp Ghost]

{ waksupi } Moose Milk ? Never heard of it. Your recipe ?

[Maven]

SG, Winchester Sutler sells commercial "Moose Milk" (a water soluble oil + H20): http://winchestersutler.com/ShotLoad.html#CNL Another manufacturer makes a pale blue version of it. (Winchester Sutler's is pale green.) However, you can make your own with 1 part Ballistol to 6 or 7 parts water. And yes, it works very well.

[waksupi]

First, ya catches yourself a moose. A momma moose. Man mooses don't go for that milking stuff.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have had trouble with petroleum base lubes and BP.It gums up something fierce after a few shots.Hoppies 9 plus is a great one as Hanshi says.

[Alan]

Depending on the temp and humidity, I've found that sometimes it is easier to deal with a bit more fouling if it is kept soft. 3F fouling seems to be a bit harder, even if there is less of it. 1F fouls a bit more in my 12 ga, but it is not a problem. It patterns a bit tighter, and the fouling seems softer than 2f, or 3f. I've never had problems firing dozens of shots w/o swabbing.

My 12-bore Pedersoli Gibbs rifle is the cleanest-shooting muzzy I have ever seen. Even with 2F or 1F, just the smallest puff of carbon goes into the water pan. 3 passes with the swab and it is clean.

[gnoahhh]

If you're having to pound the ball down the bore, I would suspect that there is something wrong with your ball and patch combo. Either your ball is too big or your patch is too thick. Continued use of a tight fitting combo would have me reaching for a fiberglass or metal ramrod too. Nothing like a broken rammer poking through one's palm to ruin the day.

[Hanshi]

While Crisco , and other grease lubes, work okay for the first shot, they mis with the fouling to create a gummy mess that makes reloading almost impossible without cleaning between shots. Keep in mind that in a hurry a bare ball in a rifle does quite well for shorter range.