Mold For 357 Sig...

[40Super]

I am using AA#9, while if you load it at max, the powder is at the base of the bullet, with reduced loadings, like when shooting lead(or trying to enjoy shooting without dealing with that recoil) there is room for setback. The thing to remember with the Sig is with just .015" of setback it raises pressures substantially, give it more and bad things can go bye,bye. It is NOT wise to rely on the powder to keep setback from happening. While careful loading and not repeatedly chambering the same round can also keep concerns down, I just don't care to play that game with that caliber. A 1000 count box of Berry's is cheap enough to not even bother

[Tim357]

[QUOTE=MikeS; One important thing to remember is that because the sig round is a bottlenecked cartridge it headspaces on the shoulder of the cartridge, rather than on the edge of the cartridge, so boolits can and should be roll crimped rather than taper crimped.

Mike, I respectfully disagree with the statement re: 357 Sig headspaces on the shoulder. While it is a bottleneck cartridge, the designers made it to headspace on the mouth of the case, just as any rimless pistol cartridge. Besides, with as hort of a neck that the Sig has, I wonder just how secure a crimp can be.

[2wheelDuke]

[QUOTE=Tim357;1880130][QUOTE=MikeS; One important thing to remember is that because the sig round is a bottlenecked cartridge it headspaces on the shoulder of the cartridge, rather than on the edge of the cartridge, so boolits can and should be roll crimped rather than taper crimped.

Mike, I respectfully disagree with the statement re: 357 Sig headspaces on the shoulder. While it is a bottleneck cartridge, the designers made it to headspace on the mouth of the case, just as any rimless pistol cartridge. Besides, with as hort of a neck that the Sig has, I wonder just how secure a crimp can be.[/QUOTE]


I've heard both.

Wikipedia says:

According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente Pour L'Epreuve Des Armes A Feu Portatives) 2007 guidelines the .357 SIG headspaces on the shoulder (P2-H1). Some US sources concur this C.I.P. ruling.[4] US reloading supplier Lyman once published the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth (H2).

So both are correct I suppose.

[Elkins45]

The current version of the Speer manual indicates it headspace on the case mouth.

[fredj338]

[QUOTE=2wheelDuke;1880165]

I've heard both.

Wikipedia says:


So both are correct I suppose.

Well that may have been the intent, but reality says other wise. Set the dies up wrong & not get the shoulder correct & you wil have FT fire. No, in reality it DOES headspace on the small shoulder. Early 357sig shooters made brass by necking down the 40. This resulted in cases shorter than SAAMI spec but fired fine. Also, some guys are canneluring bullets & roll crimping w/ great results. That would NOT be possible if the case truely headspaced on the case mouth.

[fredj338]

I am using AA#9, while if you load it at max, the powder is at the base of the bullet, with reduced loadings, like when shooting lead(or trying to enjoy shooting without dealing with that recoil) there is room for setback. The thing to remember with the Sig is with just .015" of setback it raises pressures substantially, give it more and bad things can go bye,bye. It is NOT wise to rely on the powder to keep setback from happening. While careful loading and not repeatedly chambering the same round can also keep concerns down, I just don't care to play that game with that caliber. A 1000 count box of Berry's is cheap enough to not even bother

Pressure increase w/ setback is directly related to the powder used & where you are already at in the pressure range. With slower powders, a 0.015" setback means almost nothing pressure wise. You don;t really see pressure increases until you hit 0.04" & then things start changing rapidly. At 0.06", pressures are pushing past safe, beyond that, thngs get ugly until you have a setback so far the neck tension is lost.

[HiVelocity]

ArrowJ-

I had very few problems loading cast lead in .357 Sig cases for my G-23 with a Lone Wolf conversion barrel. Shot good.

I was casting the RD 356-135-TCGC (Truncated gas checked 135gr tumble lube bullet).

Works in everything 9mm and .357 Sig.

HV

[Elkins45]

[QUOTE=fredj338;1882329]

Well that may havebeen the intent, but reality says other wise. Set the dies up wrong & not get the shoulder correct & you wil have FT fire. No, in reality it DOES headspace on the small shoulder. Early 357sig shooters made brass by necking down the 40. This resulted in cases shorter than SAAMI spec but fired fine. Also, some guys are canneluring bullets & roll crimping w/ great results. That would NOT be possible if the case truely headspaced on the case mouth.

In practical reality, most auto pistol rounds actually headspace on the extractor. Dean Grinnell did some experiments where he kept trimming 45ACP cases shorter and shorter and shooting them from the magazine. What he found was that cases could be much shorter than the SAMII minimum and still go bang because the extractor was holding the case against the breech face tightly enough for the firing pin to whack the primer. So it's not surprising that the Sig will headspace on the shoulder if the case mouth fails to do the job.

[MikeS]

Well, I don't know for sure how the 357sig headspaces, but I do know that the 400 Corbon DOES headspace on the shoulder. I had assumed that considering the fact that the Corbon round was designed after the sig round, and was basically a copy of the sig design, only larger.

[Ausglock]

G'day. I have been reloading the 357Sig for a few years. I run a Glock 35 with a Lissner (Ray Pulver) barrel.
My cast load is a Lee 140gr SWC 38/357 Mag pill sized to .356. I use 40 S&W cases resized to 357Sig.( Yes I know about the short neck yada yada yada)
I use 6.4gr WSF with this boolit. it gets a lee factory crimp into the crimp groove of the boolit. very accurate out to 50 metres and great to shoot. this round will fit and feed out of the Glock mags with no issues.

[fredj338]

[QUOTE=Elkins45;1882675]

In practical reality, most auto pistol rounds actually headspace on the extractor. Dean Grinnell did some experiments where he kept trimming 45ACP cases shorter and shorter and shooting them from the magazine. What he found was that cases could be much shorter than the SAMII minimum and still go bang because the extractor was holding the case against the breech face tightly enough for the firing pin to whack the primer. So it's not surprising that the Sig will headspace on the shoulder if the case mouth fails to do the job.

Correct, but get a worn extractor & you will have issues w/ hedspace if the cases/dies aren't right w/ any caliber. Set the 357sig up to headspace any other way but the little shoulder & you will have issues.

[Elkins45]

[QUOTE=fredj338;1883487]

Correct, but get a worn extractor & you will have issues w/ hedspace if the cases/dies aren't right w/ any caliber. Set the 357sig up to headspace any other way but the little shoulder & you will have issues.

I agree that it makes sense to take advantage of it, since it's there. Think of any one part as a fail-safe: all three (mouth, shoulder and rim) have to fail before you get a misfire. Of the three, the shoulder has the most surface area and is therefore the most solid.

[xringshutr]

Here is a post I typed over a year ago. I have tried a couple different boolits in the Sig, but this is THE one. It just works. Use AA#7 or #9 with a very light taper crimp. You will be happy. I use Speed Green lube, but anything should work. If it doesn't shoot, you are doing something wrong in the reloading process. I have cranked out a couple thousand of these on my Hornady LNL AP with great success. A couple little tricks that I found are: 1. bell the case slightly (so the boolit will just set inside the case mouth), and VERY lightly taper crimp so the boolit doesn't move when fed into the chamber. Other than that, load, shoot and enjoy.

Forgot to mention seating depth. Just short enough to fit in the magazine works for me in both a Glock 31 and a Sig P250. You might have to play with it a little though.

Lee 358-125 RF
This bullet (new style) has shot well in about every gun I have shot it in including the 357 Sig, which I am loading with 9.2 gr of Win 571. I have posted about this load before. It will be a sad day when I run out of 571. AA #7 works well too though. Bottom line, it's a nice accurate bullet for autos and revolvers as well as easy on the lead stash. What's not to like?

[ArrowJ]

Thanks!


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

[40Super]

All this talk of lead in the Sig got me thinking of playing with my 140gr TC (missouri B.C. calls it the Zinger) in the Sig. I got the mold from Magma Engineering. It is a .357Mag bullet so it has a crimp groove that I could slightly roll crimp into and it should hold securely. I just have to size them down to .356.

[Beau Cassidy]

9.2 gr of Win 571.

Thanks for that load. I have an unopened 8 lb keg of HS-7 which as you know is the same thing.

[MtGun44]

W571/HS7 was THE powder for max loads in .38 Super with heavy boolits. Probably a real
good fit for .357 SIG, but I don't have one - so, good luck.

Bill

[jmart]

All this talk of lead in the Sig got me thinking of playing with my 140gr TC (missouri B.C. calls it the Zinger) in the Sig. I got the mold from Magma Engineering. It is a .357Mag bullet so it has a crimp groove that I could slightly roll crimp into and it should hold securely. I just have to size them down to .356.

So would you purchase .358 or .357 sized bullets? And then TL them down to .356 using ALOX/JPW/MS?

Any changes in base lube lube? The Zingers come lubed with some Green Lube, whereas other offerings that look promising are Lubed with a Blue lube? Not up to speed on lubes or applicability as you can tell from my questions......

[40Super]

I cast my own of that bullet after trying some out from M.B.C., they came with the Blue lube (it's real name is Blue Angle). If I were to buy some I would get .357 so I didn't have to size them down so far. You shouldn't have to relube them.
My mold drops them at .359-.360, my lube is a mixture of carnuba red,moly, a bit more paraffin, and Johnson paste wax(the last 2 are to make it a softer lube,Vasoline would work also).



Edit: I see they are now offered in a red lube,(caranuba red ,I assume) wereas non of the others are, thats strange. Either way they should work, just resize em.

[MikeS]

As others have stated, many cartridges that are supposed to headspace on the case mouth in reality don't. I have a pistol chambered for 41 Action Express, getting brass for this cartridge is fairly hard, and expensive, so I started making my own from 40S&W brass. The 40 brass makes a 41AE case that's a bit too short (between .015 - .020" too short) yet I've never had a problem shooting loads with them. I have some of the proper 41AE brass, and when shooting them I can't tell the difference between reloads loaded into the 'proper' brass and the brass I make from 40S&W.