Stihl chainsaw chain suggestions

[x101airborne]

I need some help from all you loggers.
I am runninig 3 stihl saws with 20 inch bars.
A MS 260, A 039, and a 026 pro. All the saws are working fine now, but I am dulling chains quicker than I can sharpen them. The cost of the carbide chains is scary, but on this hard (petrified) oak, the regular ones will dull in about an hour of run time. I am pretty careful not to bog my saws and I very rarely use the teeth on the side of the motor case to force them. I usually just let them cut as they cut. I am sharpening the chains on a Harbor Freight chain sharpener (wich may be part of the problem), but do you fellas with big saws have a suggestion as to what kind of chain will last longer between sharpenings? If the carbide chains are really that good, I would consider it, but 25.00 for a regular chain versus 125.00 for a carbide is quite a price difference. What say ye?

[375RUGER]

I would like to get a carbide for mine too but the local dealer has heatburn about selling the carbide and full chisel chains to anyone except "professionals".
I have no doubt the carbide would last longer.
My only experience with an outdoor carbide blade is on a lawn mower. This was years ago in Kansas, I hardsurfaced the blade and never had to sharpen it again. Before I did that, I had to sharpen it every time I used it.
I wish I could give you more than speculation, so FWIW on a chain saw I would think that the carbide would outlast the regular for a while. I'd just keep it away from the rocks and only let the stihl dealer sharpen it.
I try to cut my firewood as green as possible too. When I cut green I rarely have to sharpen the blade as the moisture in the wood helps lubricate. I mainly cut ponderosa around here though. The hardest timber is the juniper, not nearly as hard as oak though.
I wonder what the fire departments do with their carbide chains? Or how often they replace them?
Any of you firefighters know how to get a hold of a used chain?

[x101airborne]

And another problem I am having is the chains still "feel" sharp even when they quit cutting. I guess it really isn't a problem, just another thing I dont understand. Should I be trimming the guide teeth in front of the cutting teeth? Does the angle change as the chain ages?

[fishhawk]

I only do the "rakers" when the chain is about half gone then use a .020 gauge more than that and my MS310 grabs and jumps to much.

[Superfly]

I do two rounds on the cutters and then i will do three strokes on the rakers. U better be holding on to the saw then as it cuts and i will do it now. The saw i use is a 266 husky xp Pro saw 20" old and damn strong.


It sounds like the OP needs his rakers filed down. The cutter tooth is not biting into the wood and just free riding on the raker depth, What does the saw chips look like Real chips or more dusty lookin chips???? if dusty looking chips take three strokes of the rakers and go from there.

[Chill Wills]

As a career firefighter in the Colorado high country, I have experience with carbide saw chain. We used Stihl saws. I also worked the beetle kill pine salvage, cutting vast areas of permits for pulp and firewood.
My experience with carbide chain is for FD use only and I would never recommend it for anything else. I might be wrong but within my experience this is the case. The reason is every time we used the carbide chainsaw we would be sending the chain back to replace the chipped, broken and missing cutters. If you don’t know, the cutters are glued to the cutter seat with epoxy.

If the oak you refer to is Juniper I have no answer for you. It is the nastiest stuff to cut God ever put on earth. For all wood cutting I agree with using the Stihl brand and I never use a grinder on a chain. I am faster and more accurate with the correct chain file clamped in a file guide. With a file you will NEVER remove the temper. It is the only way to go.

Also read Superfly's post and heed.

Hmmmmm…. Other than saving you the cast of a carbide chain I am not sure I offered you anything. Think of ways to avoid cutting this stuff and move on…maybe....…

[oneokie]

As the teeth are shortened, one needs to use a smaller file to maintain the correct angle on the underside of the teeth.

[x101airborne]

Sorry, no. My wood is not Juniper. Live oak is another animal all of it's own. It is almost NEVER straight grained and when it is dry, a cat cant scratch it. I think it is what the devil uses to hammer out diamonds. This is like cutting dry Osage Orange or Iron Wood. I have heated bars till they turned blue, had chains fly apart, sparks fly like I was trying to cut steel, etc. This is not the norm, but does happen.

Not to be contradictory, but i cut juniper with a saw and it is nothing like cutting dry oak.

[Chill Wills]

you wrote:
"Not to be contradictory, but i cut juniper with a saw and it is nothing like cutting dry oak. "

Well that being the case I would say do something other than cutting it. I know, easy for me to say!
Sounds like this wood must be great for knife scales.

Colorado high country Dead Juniper will do to a chain just what you described. I avoid it.

Good Luck

[shotman]

they sell a carbide coated chain . its on out side so you can sharpen with a file. The HARD you are talking about needs a less pitch on the cut about 22* and a chipper is not your friend there. the cutter/ round tooth will last longer . the carbide coated is round. It is for HARD DRY wood .
Check feebay I have 2 and they work for loacus great

[x101airborne]

Ah, I see. There is probably a huge difference in Colorado high country Juniper than the juniper down here. Ours really isn't all that tough. Takes a while, but not that bad. As far as doing something other than cutting it,,,,, I sure wish dynamite was easier to get ahold of! I could just line up all my splitting pieces, drill holes, insert a quarter stick and a cap, 500 feet of cord and a charge-box. Have you ever seen people fighting to go split wood? That is how it would be down here. LOL!

I called Stihl and they suggested a full chisel chain. I dont know that I ever have or ever havent used one. Anyone know of these? Stihl says that they are the only chains meant for really hard wood. But you MUST keep them clean and out of the dirt. The Stihl guy suggested washing the chain every so often in Kerosene or Diesel and transmission fluid at the end of every use. I just dont think the guy believed me that I dont "force" my saws.

[Bad Water Bill]

Just a side note

Many years ago I worked as a carpenter. We used a BLACK pine for interior studs etc. Never having seen this type of pine I asked the boss about it. It was from a coal mining area and the BLACK was coal dust impregnated into the wood as the trees grew.

You might have the same problem with sand. Never having been in Victoria so just food for thought.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I use a couple Stihl saws for firewood cuttin',
The bigger of the two is a 360 Pro with a 20" bar.
I posted a thread similar to yours about a year ago.
I got into some trees in a flood plain and deduced that there was
sand and/or river silt embedded in the trees. The chains would dull up in one or two cuts.

I recall you posting a while back about a huge Live oak that fell on your land...is this that one ?
Is it in an area that's open, sometimes windy(sand storm), sandy desert type area ?
Do you suppose the bark or outer layer is embedded with sand and grit ?

My experience with Hard cutting Oak that isn't gritty.
There was a time I got to cut up a bunch of large "standing dead for 20+ years" White Oak. While these weren't twisty grain as you describe of the Live Oak, They were Hard and dry and difficult to cut. For example, cutting a 30" dia trunk, I could make about 7 cuts per tankful, each cut would take about 4 minutes. Even though the chain wouldn't need it, I'd hand file the chain after each tankfull, plus that gives me and the saw a rest.

I'm glad you asked about carbide...as I had no clue and always wondered if that was the cat's Meow...and the responces you got answered my question as well.
Good Luck with that Live Oak.
Jon

[Dean D.]

I really like a skip-tooth full chisel chain for harder wood. You have to watch more carefully for kick-back with a skip tooth chain though. I've been told that the skip tooth gives the chain more time to clean out more debris between each tooth. Not sure why but it seems to cut faster than my full comp chains. Also, I use a round file on my full chisel chains. They are easier to bugger up the leading corner on them but man they cut well when they are sharp.

+1 on Ray's comment about sharpening angle. They recommend different angles for green and for dead/dry wood. I seem to recall 45 and 30 degrees but can't remember off hand which is which. I'm a lineman, not a logger.

[fryboy]

i have to agree about the rakers , as teeth wear and get worn/sharpened down they too have to be attended to , i've seen the harbor freight grinders ( both in the store and in action ) no i didnt and wont buy one , dad taught me the file method ( of note he was much much better than i am at it ) they make a gauge for the rakers , that helped me alot , while i'd love to have the blade that cuts thru concrete ( yes they have them ) i really have no need , the stil is my second fav blade , the husqvarna is my first , they cut like crazy and seem to have a slightly different angle on the teeth and as others have stated your chips will tell you a whole alot about your blade ( for those who dont know in essence if you're not getting nice long big ones your blade is dull ) while i'm not fond of grinding blades sometimes it is needed and in those cases i like the dremel system ( just remember to not sit and grind work it back and forth a couple times and go to the the next tooth and come back if you have to so you dont build up heat and lose the temper

[Houndog]

I worked for the Tennessee Dept of Conservation for awhile and they used Carlton A1 series chains on everything. It IS expensive (about 1/3 more than a Stihl chain) but i've cut all day on a single chain without resharpening! As far as the rakers, (we called them drags) Stihl makes a neat little guage you straddle the teeth with that will tell you when they need filing. It's EASY to keep them level and all the same with that little tool.

FWIW: I've got a Husky 55 (18" blade) I use for a general purpose saw and a Stihl 445 (28" blade)for the serious stuff and use the Carlton chain on both.

[white eagle]

don't know if you can find them in your area but I use a combo file
set up to file your angle and has a built in gauge to hit the rake if they need it
so after so many sharps it will touch the raker as well
been working for me
chains aint fun to buy

[oneokie]

I called Stihl and they suggested a full chisel chain. I dont know that I ever have or ever havent used one. Anyone know of these?

Looking at the cutting part of a full chisel tooth from the front, it will have a square corner where the top and side meet. The top and side of the tooth are flat.

[x101airborne]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the comments and stories. I am newer to chain saw chains than I am at casting boolits. My area is not all that arid, but it is in sandy-loam country, so I am sure there is a factor of sand imbedded in the wood. I am careful not to heat up the chain while sharpening, but cannot gurantee anything.

I appreciate someone asking about the 200 year old oak. Unfortunately, this is not it. Even a 20 inch bar is not enough for that tree. And the limbs on it are still over 20 inches in diamater. I feel for that old warhorse, but fear it fodder for the burn pile. Sad state of affairs indeed.

This is just for cutting firewood. Most under 10 inches in diamater. In fact, most under about 7 inches in diamater. I dont want to split any more wood than I have to. I just want my chains to last longer. I am considering the full chisle chains. Even just to try. At 28.00 a piece, they are not that expensive. I just dont know how I would sharpen them.

[Dean D.]

I file my full chisel chain with a round file just like you do a round chain. Keeping the angles correct is the hardest part. There are various mechanical file guides you can buy that really help you maintain those angles. Filing a saw chain is an art that takes time to learn well.