Your thoughts please

[JDL]

I have an 1894 Marlin in .44 Mag., 1 in 38" twist, that I have been using Lee's C430-310 gas check boolit in. I came up with 3 loads that are pretty accurate:
17 grains of WC-820 - 1347 fps - 9 group average 2.23" @ 100 yds.
21 grains of IMR-4227 - 1425 fps - 7 group average 2.75" @ 100 yds.
21 grains of H-110 - 1537 fps - 4 group average 2.19" @ 100 yds.

I have been shooting mostly the 820 load because I have more of that powder and I had planned to deer hunt with it at up to 75 yards. That was the plans until last Saturday at the range, when I had a keyhole at the 100 target, while the other 2 shots left round holes! On close inspection, I found that my previous shooting sessions had some holes that wasn't quite round but, I had dissmissed that to the target not being completely flat on the backing.

The 4227 load shows some are slightly tipping and H-110 loads show slightly fewer but, I'm hitting a pressure limit and won't be able to get much, if anymore velocity with it. In fact, I believe I could increase only .5 gr. with the 110 load and 1 gran with the other 2 to be at max.

At 50 yards, even the 820 load makes round holes. Do you think any of these loads would be adequate for hunting or should I use one of the lighter SWC such as the RCBS 44-225 GC which only shoots 4" at 100 but, is traveling at 1700 fps? Thanks for your thoughts. -JDL

[BABore]

Due to the slow twist, low velocity, and heavy bullet, your seeing the result. You could probably get away with the H110 load and limit your range. You didn't say when you worked up the load, but you may want to tweak during the average hunting time temps. If your from a cold area you may be able to bump the charge up a little more safely. Otherwise drop down in bullet weight some. You could also try hollow pointing your existing bullet to reduce weight and shift center of gravity some.

[Bass Ackward]

JDL,

I think you are to be congratulated. Very good grouping for a bullet that is not entirely stabilizing.

Many people never consider that if a bullet destabilizes in air at a certain velocity, then it will destabilize in game at the same level. Problem is that deceleration in game depends on what it encounters, but one thing for sure, velocity decelerates a hell of a lot faster than just air.

So just at the very point your big, bad bullet encounters the material that you meant it for, the meplat becomes worthless as the bullet begins to tumble.

I think you need to forgo opinion at this point and find out first hand. I think you need some water jug testing. Those results will answer your question in a definitive way. Jug quantity based upon intended game (size) usage.

[felix]

Both excellent answers. Because I am NOT a hunter, I would interject this statement that others who are hunters say to me: the 32 special is a better killer than the 30-30. I think this is because the 16 twist is just at the brink of stabilization, where as the 12 twist in the 30-30 keeps the boolit stright on. In other words, I would like to see you kill the deer with the 36 twist using that 310 grainer and report back results. Within range, of course. ... felix

[grumpy one]

I think so far as wound effect is concerned, you should look at the design of the bullet in relation to the required penetration, before you decide whether you object to the bullet tumbling after impact with the game animal.

I'm told (haven't done the reading myself) by Lee Enfield groupies that the pointed 173 grain bullet used after the early round nose was dropped, was designed as an evasion of the Geneva Convention; it has a strange shape and even stranger mass distribution and this was allegedly done to promote tumbling after impact. Because that bullet is extremely long for its diameter, and the intended target animal is extremly shallow in a direction parallel to the bullet's path, it is easy to see why this might seem to produce an advantage. So, you might look at the length to diameter ratio of your bullet and the number of inches of penetration you require. If you want maximum penetration, keeping the bullet end-on would be the way to go. If you want rapid energy transfer, tumbling might be a worthwhile substitute for expansion. In this case, it seems like you probably want quite a lot of penetration in relation to the bullet velocity and area, so keeping it travelling point first is probably best. In other words, I think Bass is almost certainly right as usual - but in different circumstances a different solution might be best. And as Felix says, in the end there is no reliable substitute for experimentation.

[Blammer]

If your 21 gr of H110 at 1537 fps will consistently put the bullet in that 4" circle at 100 yards. (yea you avg 2.19...) I'd use that! No questions asked!

If your bullet hits a bit sideways and tumbles in the game, do you think that would hurt Less or more?

personally, I think a bullet that tumbles sideways in the game will do MORE damage than one that just punches straight in.