Are you poisoned? The lead blood levels poll...

[noylj]

>If you look back in history you can see the wonderful effects of lead poisoning. You know the whole gang violence thing in the 1990s? You can link the growth of gang violence, and then the subsequent reduction in violent crime over the last 15 years, to the wonderful power of large groups of the under priviledged being exposed to leaded gasoline vapors.

My God man, do you have any proof for that?
Where were all the lead deaths in L.A. (or even lead-poisoning reports) during all the years of heavy smog and lead emissions?
Lead poisoning has historically been due to long term exposure from lead pipes. We have spent at least 60 years in the US getting rid of lead paint (you know, children reportedly just love snacking on lead paint) and 40 years getting rid of leaded gasoline, and the government still reports children being exposed to high levels of lead. Of course, the levels keep going down, they just redefine what HIGH is.
Best way to control a populace is to keep them scared and reliant on YOU to protect them.
Again, there are virtually NO lead fumes from molten lead until you get to boiling lead. Need good ventilation for casting for flux fumes.
Lead is a problem when ingested, so you don't eat, drink, or smoke while using lead. You wash your face and hands and blow your nose afterwards.

[44man]

You will not believe the warning on brass parts for my well. A label saying known to cause cancer in Kalifornication. It is Brass for heavens sake. Rub brass on your fingers for 1000 years and you might die. Liberal bunch of dips.

[dondiego]

"This is also visible in the latter years of the roman empire. Lack of impulse control increases excessive spending and crime as well as other abuses."

So that explains what has happened to our congress, senate, judicial, and president! It is all becoming so clear now.

[Duarteus]

Q. What some of you guys use to clean up after a day of casting/reload or just shooting at the range ?
Some goes to ammo box ,and stuff one may bring to the range..
Did a small test on some rifle cases I have and some .50 ammo cans and all came out with lead dust on in.
Just want to learn some more on how to clean it up because I have small kid and I am trying not to have cross contamination moving this stuff from car to range and back in the house.
Thanks,
H

[OBIII]

A. Common sense is what is required. Melting lead at casting temps +- 700 degrees F, does NOT release lead into the air. You are more likely to pick up lead contamination from handling fired casings. Another example is range lead. Do not dump fired projectiles and sort/handle in an enclosed area. Open air or positive air flow would be suggested. Do not pick nose while handling lead scraps, nor eat your sandwich while sorting brass. After completion of a casting session, thoroughly wash your hands with soap and water. Common sense is your best friend. Oh, and do not let your kids suck on empty shell casings.
There is always some danger of cross contamination, but by applying common sense you will have done the best that you can.

OB

[sthwestvictoria]

Not poisoned. I have only been casting for 4 years, no indoors shooting and was lucky to grow up in a clean, lead free region.

[badgerblaster]

Just had mine tested for work and is 4 mcg/dl, normal range is 0-9
That is down from 8 mcg/dl last year at this time.
I just started casting early last year and it's good to see the level actually drop.
I've done a lot more casting this year and take moderate precautions.
Looks like I'll just keep the lead a pourin.

[Idz]

Dropping 8 to 4 may not be real since the OSHA requirement for a lead testing lab is an accuracy of +/- 6 mcg/dL (www.osha.gov/SLTC/bloodlead/)

fyi: The conversion for lead level is 1 uMol/L = 20.7039 ug/dL so the Aussie action level of 2.41 uMol/L is about 50 ug/dL which is slightly higher than the OSHA 40 ug/dL level for action but lower than the OSHA lead worker removal level of 60 ug/dL. Pretty much any blue collar worker qualifies as a lead worker (www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3680.pdf)
notation: micro=1/1000000=mc=u, u is used because it looks like the Greek mu character

[Alexn20]

My post may be out of place but I'm just curious. Does anyone on this board have Parkinson's disease? My father has been battling with it and has been an avid shooter/reloader among many other things. There has been some research that suggests links between heavy metals and neurological diseases. Is anyone else out there dealing with this?

[popper]

* Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
* Muscular weakness
* Headache
* Abdominal pain
* Memory loss
* Mood disorders

Does this occur monthly?

Alexn20- have a friend with it, diagnosed ~ 5 yrs ago. VA fast-tracked him with some drugs and he is doing well. Gov said it was agent orange. Fortunately he hadn't collected any lead. I did hear the other day of a study stating grains could tell when they were eaten. Wait for real definitive research results, clinical trials. You'd be surprized at the chemicals in chocolate & coffee - closely related to restricted drugs. Heavy alkaloids.

[303Guy]

The oxides of lead dust can be inhaled and absorbed through the lungs. That will get your blood lead up real high real quick!

[BBQJOE]

During my last checkup, my wife insisted they do a test for lead. I told her there was no way I had poisoning. I have been reloading for almost 10 years. I've been casting and smelting for about two.
Lead level? 8

[big bore 99]

Been casting for quite awhile, bit down on many a split shot, worked with white lead on the job for 45+yrs. I have many of the aches and pains that old age brings on.
I've outlived most all my friends. Mentioned to the doc about my shooting and casting and she recommended a lead test. I answered,Why? I'm not going to change anything and why ruin one of the few things I enjoy anymore.

[Bored1]

5.1 here. Haven't been casting or reloading long, but figured since I could get it tested at work, would be good to get a baseline. Wondering how I got to 5.1 without reloading, casting, or any serious industrial work. . .

Either way gonna check it every year and see what happens. Figure best to be safe and catch a problem before it really starts. Same reason SWMBO insists on my Bp and labs occasionally. Always uses the excuse, "Well shame on me, I like ya and wanna keep you around for a bit. Lord knows if I don't keep track of your health you ain't gonna!" HAHAHHAHAH.

She sure is good to me!

[edctexas]

I think it is alot of hooey. I have a recent lead test at about 6.5. I started 66 yrs ago chewing on lead toy soldiers. I cast sinkers and toy soldiers as a kid. I have shot on indoor ranges for 20 yrs or more before the positive pressure ventilation requirements. I cast at least 4 times a month and shot three or four times at month in indoor ranges. I had more problems from agent orange and I did not have direct exposure to the spray, only going thru areas wher it had been.

I do think it is good form to protect developing youngsters and to practice good cleanliness while dealing with lead. The EPA and our "nanny state" go way overboard to protect us.

Ed C

[Ron in PA]

No, but my Coleman is

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A very useful mention of this subject is contained in "The Last Fighting Tommy" by Harry Patch, who was the last British soldier, and perhaps the last of anybody's, to have fought in the trenches of France in the First World War.

For most of his life Harry was a bit annoyed by the idea that the war was the big thing in his life. He was a family man and a highly qualified sanitary engineer. He worked a great deal with lead, including "burning" together the half-inch thick panels on the roof of Bristol University's Wills Tower. This has to be done with lead alone, since tin solder and lead would expand at different rates in the sun. There is a 1925 penny with his name under the last panel to this day. This inspired the lead caps on my gateposts.

He also describes working with old lead sheeting and pipes, liberating quantities of the white lead sulphate which is far more dangerous than metallic lead. Inhaling it produced headaches and nausea, and handling it turned fingernails and hands blue. He also mixed large quantities of asbestos paste, but said that as long as men washed their hands, no lasting ill effects seemed to happen. Harry lived to the age of 111, bright and energetic, and athough he dictated his book, it is his all right, and an extremely good one. He didn't outlive all his friends, for he kept making new ones.

Harry, like most of the ones who lasted, seems to have been an extremely good soldier, who took the job seriously, and yet was convinced that war was a crime of governments. He was a very good shot, including with the Lewis, and knew that a good machine-gunner was vital in getting his comrades safe home. But he did a private deal with his number one, like the shy little WW1 sniper I knew as a child, not to kill anyone they could possibly send home wounded. He describes how a German came towards him while he had the Lewis dismantled, even after being shot in the shoulder and dropping his rifle. Clearly he meant to kick the Lewis parts into the mud, which meant lives. So Harry deliberately shot him twice in the leg, to avoid killing him. He might have lost the leg, for the Webley was a very effective weapon, but he had taken his chance, and the temporary loss of the Lewis would have cost more lives.

Of course we can't judge toxicity by anecdotal evidence. What some people get away with, others may not. But I am sure the salts of lead, which aren't formed by heating clean lead to bullet casting temperature, are the main danger. Surgeon-Colonel La Garde (of the Thompson-La Garde Chicago stockyard trials which led to the .45ACP) describes and illustrates with X-rays the removal of bullets from Civil War veterans. Myth to the contrary, he makes no mention of lead poisoning being present, except with bullets lodged in a joint, since the lubricating synovial fluid can leach it into the bloodstream.

I used to pass a ruined cottage which still had one door standing, and the green paint remained in good condition. Its use in paint was pretty seductive, but if it harms the bacteria and mould which attack paintwork, it can also attack us. Again, it is white lead, a salt, which does the damage, and has a sweet taste which entices children to chew.

I think it is important to be very careful with white-dusted scrap lead. It can be melted, preferably outdoors, but the dross must be scrupulously collected and disposed of. Eating a sandwich while the pot or mould heats is folly, and you don't have to be a dedicated thumbsucker to have a habit of touching your lips which must be broken.

I would suspect that range dust causes far more harm, and I would much prefer to shoot on an outdoor range only a few people use, or a well ventilated indoor one. Any escape of high pressure gases around a bullet is liable to spray hot, atomized gilding meta on the bore, let alone lead, and the advancing bullet is surely liable to impel some of into the atmosphere. Paper patching must surely be of great benefit, and a bullet of the right size to seal the bore is surely important, but it is hardly practical to enforce that. We must surely add one more to the other reasons to avoid a large volume of rapid fire, and most especially automatic fire, which opens the breech before pressure is completely gone. The old philosophy of treating each cartridge like the only one you will ever have, may have some point after all.

[ascast]

mcg/dL what does this mean? can any doctor do this test?


* Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
* Muscular weakness
* Headache
* Abdominal pain
* Memory loss
* Mood disorders
* Reduced sperm count, abnormal sperm

Symptoms ? Are you kidding me? This rules out anybody over 35!

Ad for Kaliforina outlawing lead- I saw something on TV about a Condor dying of lead poison from eating a gut pile from a shot deer. Lots of lead fragments.
Apparently, the Condor stomach acids are more robust than human and it desolves lead. OK, killing an very endangered species, OK Find something besides lead.

[jacksonsmith]

My wife cast boolits for me AND lubes them. Go figure!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

mcg/dL what does this mean? can any doctor do this test?


* Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
* Muscular weakness
* Headache
* Abdominal pain
* Memory loss
* Mood disorders
* Reduced sperm count, abnormal sperm

Symptoms ? Are you kidding me? This rules out anybody over 35!

Ad for Kaliforina outlawing lead- I saw something on TV about a Condor dying of lead poison from eating a gut pile from a shot deer. Lots of lead fragments.
Apparently, the Condor stomach acids are more robust than human and it desolves lead. OK, killing an very endangered species, OK Find something besides lead.

Oh come now, not headaches surely?

I don't think there is much doubt that birds of prey can suffer badly from lead poisoning from pellets etc. But I think that like most heavy metal poisoning, it is liable to be cumulative, over a considerable period of time.

In Saudi Arabia I used to regularly see an egret or heron, a seagull and a cormorant hunting as a team, in a deep creek behind the beach. If the fry went deep, the cormorant drove them shallow. If they went shallow above deep water, the seagull dived on them. If they went shallow at the edges, where he would blunten his beak, the egret got them. There was nowhere for them to go, and that odd trio knew it. They were there together, but I never did find out whether it was just those three that did it, or it was quite the usual thing. They were likely to have been among the birds that we saw on TV, badly oiled in Saddam's military adventure.

So a condor that finds himself onto a good thing (he thinks) is likely to do it all hunting season.