Delicate TL boolit "bands"

[prs]

I recently obtained a new Lee 6 cavity mould for their TL452-230-2R to use in 45ACP. First, it was a really oily mould out of the box and even with two scrubbings with Dawn, Brake Clean, and then 90% isoprople it tends to have a 10% or greater reject rate due to wrinkles and under fill in those tiny details of the TL lube bands. Using my typical alloy of 95/3/2 and really don't want to add another pound of tin ($n) to the next 100# batch of alloy since I am a cheap bastage. Taking great care to keep mould hot and alloy not too hot and accepting the rejection of the less than perfect boolits has me fairly well supplied. I used Recluse lube very thinnly before sizing to .452 (actually, they dropped so close to 452 that such "sizing" was a waste of time, but on this first run I wanted consistent booltis to reduce variables). Then I gave the sized product another thin tumble in Recluse lube.

At the loading bench, with new Starline brass, I made my dumby round using the actual barrel of my Ruger SR1911 as the gague. 5 stage press with Lee 45ACP deprime/sive die, RCBS Cowboy 452 internal size die, Lee powder through, Lee seat/crimp set to just barely iron out the "bell" or even a tiny bit of bell left, and then a taper crimp die to apply very modest crimp. The fit of boolits to the cases at seating is less tight than typical, but when I pull a boolit and measure the TL grooves are still mashed and mic-out under .451. If I use the Cowboy .454 internal expander the boolits will fall in, so that is not good. If I skip the Cowboy die and rely only on the Lee powder through to expand the fit is even tighter and boolit down sized even more.

So, any bright ideas on how to load these delicate boolits, or do I need to sell/trade this mould for a traditional hard ball clone design? Or make my next 100# batch of alloy harder and stronger (spend more on sb and sn).

Oh important ommision! The loaded rounds (5.4gr Unique) do shoot very well and no leading noted after 200 rounds so far (more to shoot today, if I reload more of the same). So the "flaw" is maybe just a technical thing and not a functional thing so far as shooting iron targets on the back lot. I am not a great shot my any standard, but consistently hit the little 6" plates on the dueling tree and hostage targets. Maybe that gives me another option; forget about perfection of the cartridge and just shoot 'm since it works?

prs

[Larry Gibson]

Are you ACing the bullets 7 - 10 days for hardening? If not and you want to load right away then WQ out of the mould and lube, size and load the next day.

A harder alloy will help also.

If they are shooting to your satisfaction then why fix?

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

They shoot well with no leading? Where is the problem?

If it ain't broke, don't fixi it!

[Artful]

Oh important ommision! The loaded rounds (5.4gr Unique) do shoot very well and no leading noted after 200 rounds so far (more to shoot today, if I reload more of the same). So the "flaw" is maybe just a technical thing and not a functional thing so far as shooting iron targets on the back lot. I am not a great shot my any standard, but consistently hit the little 6" plates on the dueling tree and hostage targets. Maybe that gives me another option; forget about perfection of the cartridge and just shoot 'm since it works?

prs

forget about perfection of the cartridge and just shoot 'm since it works?

[mdi]

As Mr. Gibson states, perhaps a slightly harder alloy will help. I have the same mold and cast with wheel weight alloy (BHN??) and do not have the same problem. My 45 ACP dies are a mix of Lee, RCBS, and Redding; Lee size/deprime, RCBS flare/expanding, Lee seating, and Redding taper crimp, and I manage to get a shootable cartridge with all that

[harvester]

Sounds like your looking for a problem that may not exist.

[Hamish]

"The loaded rounds (5.4gr Unique) do shoot very well and no leading noted after 200 rounds so far"

Professor Gun has made his decision.

[geargnasher]

I always wondered who it was that actually purchased Starline .45 ACP NEW, now I know! The closest I ever came to buying new brass was buying factory ammo.

Larry covered the "issue" by explaining the age-hardening thing. But really, don't mess with success, right? If you do happen to have some leading issues in the future, you know what to look for. Another thing that could possibly happen is that as the boolits age and get harder and you load your next batch, they might be .452" when fired and for some reason related to the shape of your gun's throat taper, might actually start shaving lead and causing the lead smears in the first inch or so of the barrel. Some .45s just don't like bigger boolits, some insist on them. Keep all this in mind.

Gear

[prs]

The boolits were only 4 days old when loaded. You know, new toy and wanting to play with it. Thanks for the tips Larry.

Gear, there is no well organzied shooting range anywhere near here to allow picking-up of range brass. I do belong to a new group which is starting-up a range, but not enough participation yet to yield sufficient range brass and what I have scavanged is small primer and I don't wanna go there since I load, including priming, on a progressiv press. Who the H377 got the bright idea to start using small primers in 45ACP, does not make it easy on hand loaders. But I digress.

prs

[popper]

Lee powder through to expand

If this is what you shot, go with it. I agree with Larry, WD and see how it does. I would reduce the Sn, not increase.

[runfiverun]

small pistol is really all the primer needed in the acp.
it would probably be what was first used had it existed in consistent enough brisance.

[prs]

small pistol is really all the primer needed in the acp.
it would probably be what was first used had it existed in consistent enough brisance.

I can't argue that point, but the bug-a-boo is the trouble this gives to us handloaders who have to sort the brass. Running mixed primer sizes through a progressive press is not gonna be a good experience, might even get some primer detonations.

prs

[44man]

I can't argue that point, but the bug-a-boo is the trouble this gives to us handloaders who have to sort the brass. Running mixed primer sizes through a progressive press is not gonna be a good experience, might even get some primer detonations.

prs

The SP primer only helped accuracy in the auto a little but where they really improved things was in the revolver.
I would just sort but don't overlook using them at some point.

[runfiverun]

i keep looking out for them on the range so far i think i have found only 2-3.
there is gonna be more as time goes by i think.
who knows they might drop the small primers at some point.
for now i just look mine all over before going on the press.
if i ever get a bunch of them i'll segregate them out for one gun and keep track of them that way.

[prs]

I cast some more of the Lee TL452-230-2R. The 6 cavity mould was pre-heated and alloy held close to just under 700F. Took the typical 5 or 6 quick fills to really get the mould up to temp and I still had a few rejects. So while the "20#" pot was still nearly full I added a strip of Linotype to boost the lead and antimony a tad. Now it was casting way better, nice frosty booits (I prefer frosty boolits, esp with tumble lube). Did so well I went ahead refilled the pot and kept going until I just shy of 50# of boolits. I will let these set for week or two before loading so they can knit together and get harder.

prs