45 ACP problem

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Not sure where I should put this, it's a cast bullet/loading equipment/reloading question.

I have been having shot consistency issues in my 1911 and after extensive tinkering with powder charge, seating depth, etc., I have determined that my bullets are being swaged down to about 450.5 (should have caught this sooner) upon loading. I know that it is not the Lee FCD as I only have it set to smooth out the flare I put in the case to prevent shaving. I'm concerned that the sizing die may be sizing my brass to small.

I had been using plain WW, I just cast and water quenched a new batch of WW 230 RN to see if the increase in hardness prevent 1/1000 of an inch of swaging.

Any suggestions would be great, I'm not keen on using a Lyman M or Lee Universal because I powder charge through the flaring die.

Thanks.

[RobS]

Try just seating the boolit and then pull to measure (this will tell you if it's the brass or the FCD). Also are you waiting for the air cooled WW boolits to age before loading them? Just crimping to take the flare from the case mouth doesn't mean the die isn't swaging down on the boolit. The carbide ring is what swages the diameter of cast boolit smaller as it post sizes the outside diameter of each round.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

That's what I did on quite a few tonight, and will tomorrow with the water quenched boolits, and yes, I have been letting the air cooled WW boolits sit for a week to age harden a bit. I'm just not sure what to do next if I'm still having the problem with quenched boolits.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

should I try knocking out the carbide ring?

[RobS]

You shouldn't have any issues with air cooled and for sure not with water quenched WW boolits in regards to case swage. You should feel if the boolit is being swaged down by the carbide ring in the FCD as there will be resistence as the mouth of the brass just starts into the crimp die (carbide ring).

[runfiverun]

look at the sizing die.
if you are squeezing the inside down to 447-8 or something then slightly opening them back up with the through die they will spring back on you some.
you could size the boolits larger and let the dies/brass squish them back to correct size.

i would measure everything throughout each step to pinpoint the exact problem.
it only takes a few minutes.

[RobS]

should I try knocking out the carbide ring?

You can..............I did. Make sure to heat up the mouth end first to break the adheasive on the ring. Also it helps to put a socket in the top of the die so it slides down toward the ring and catches the edge then you can take a punch and with a brisk pop with a hammer it'll come out. IIRC I used a 44 mag case for mine as the rim just caught the edge of the carbide ring. You could also just by a $10-$12 taper crimp die from Lee if you don't want to knock the ring out.

[RobS]

look at the sizing die.
if you are squeezing the inside down to 447-8 or something then slightly opening them back up with the through die they will spring back on you some.
you could size the boolits larger and let the dies/brass squish them back to correct size.i would measure everything throughout each step to pinpoint the exact problem.
it only takes a few minutes.

Could do this too if the boolit will chamber. Some autos can be picky about this if the barrel has a short/tight chamber throat. If you are loading a design like the Lyman 452374 then this can work quite well.

[prs]

If you have another set of Lee dies, borrow the powder through die and remove the inner stem. Put the taper crimp ring from the Lee CFCD in the powder through. Now you have a die that will do the same as the CFCD with the ring knocked out. I use the seat and crimp die to reduce the bell to almost original case diameter before modestly crimping in next stage.

prs

[MtGun44]

Use a separate taper crimp die and ditch that demonic FCD.

Bill

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Taper crimp die on the way, well I suppose Midway will ship it tuesday. Thanks everyone.

To make sure that it was the carbide ring in the FCD I took the crimp sleeve out and ran a few rounds up into it, and yep, the pulled bullets ranged from 449-450.5. This seems like something Lee should fix, as that is probably a tight enough fit to swage down plated bullets, although I'm sure FMJ wouldn't be affected.

[9.3X62AL]

Most die sets "assume" the use of jacketed bullets by their users, given their internal dimensioning. Carbide sizing dies tend to over-do the sizing bit; my RCBS 45 ACP T/C sizer reduced most cases to .466"-.467". I now use a 45 Colt RCBS T/C sizer for my 45 ACP sizing, and this die yields .469"-.470" sizing. Next comes a Lyman Multi-Charge Die for expanding/powder charging on the Ponsness-Warren semi-progressive machine, sort of an M-die with powder-thru-expander capability. Next die step seats the boolit and "kisses" the case mouth end with the die's roll-crimp shoulder, and I have the option of a seperate taper crimp die step if I so choose.

As an aside......I've gone Old School on 45 Colt sizing, using a steel sizer and lubed cases to avoid over-working the brass in that (expletives deleted) T/C die.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

So, what I gather is that the 45 ACP cases are sized smaller so they will be tighter and less likely to accidentally compress a load during cycling, right? maybe if the taper die doesn't work i'll try a 45 Colt sizing die.

[9.3X62AL]

Kind of. With jacketed bullets, not only are they far less likely to be compressed downward by over-tight case mouths--but also any such compression has far less influence on accuracy, and no chance of leading a barrel. In short, jacketed bullets are tougher and more foolproof. Their primary disadvantage is COST.

[RobS]

So, what I gather is that the 45 ACP cases are sized smaller so they will be tighter and less likely to accidentally compress a load during cycling, right? maybe if the taper die doesn't work i'll try a 45 Colt sizing die.

Probably isn't going to do much different. My dies will size the brass outside diameter about the same in regards to the 45 ACP carbide sizing die and the 45 Colt carbide sizing die. (Lee dies)

Have you only seated a bullet and then pulled it to measure (not running the round through a crimp die)? This will tell you if the brass is swaging down on your cast boolit.

[Frozone]

You should feel if the boolit is being swaged down by the carbide ring in the FCD as there will be resistence as the mouth of the brass just starts into the crimp die (carbide ring).

You are incorrect, sir.
You May feel the flare hitting the ring, that usually means you're using a little to much flare,
but
If the ring is resizing the bullet, you'll feel That resistance as you pull the cartridge OUT of the die.

I get a kick out of all you guys who say the FCD is bogus - then, you don't seem to even know How it works.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

Have you only seated a bullet and then pulled it to measure (not running the round through a crimp die)? This will tell you if the brass is swaging down on your cast boolit.

Yes, no swaging, the pulled boolits measured 451.5-452. Then I ran a few through the FCD and they all came out at 450.5 or smaller.

[40Super]

The funny thing about those FCD's is if you bought 3 of them they would be three different sizes I have one that came in a set I bought just to see what all the fuss was about and mine can run .003" oversized boolits through before it starts to drag, .004" with the thinner wall brass.And yes it is for the ACP , not colt. I still don't like them or need them.

[RobS]

You are incorrect, sir.
You May feel the flare hitting the ring, that usually means you're using a little to much flare,
but
If the ring is resizing the bullet, you'll feel That resistance as you pull the cartridge OUT of the die.

I get a kick out of all you guys who say the FCD is bogus - then, you don't seem to even know How it works.

What???? The over all outside diameter (seated boolit inside of the brass case) due to a larger cast boolit can give a person resistance as the round first enters the die if in fact the outside diameter is larger than the carbide ring's diameter. That is simple to understand I believe. The original poster already proved the Lee FCD is swaging down on his cast boolit. He took the guts out of the die so there was no crimp; people can not mistake anything by saying the die was set with too much crimp. Just because you haven't seen for yourself simply means it has not happened to you………congratulation!!! Another note, insinuating that the rest of us out there who have experienced this sort of thing first hand as being ignorant in not knowing how to use the die is simply insulting.

[RobS]

Yes, no swaging, the pulled boolits measured 451.5-452. Then I ran a few through the FCD and they all came out at 450.5 or smaller.

It sounds like it's the die then. You'll be on your way soon when you have yourself a pulled boolit that is at your intended diameter. Let us know how things end up.