Home hot blue picks.

[fido]

I don't usually post much but I got to share.

I finally got at some iron that needed it. I wish I had before picks. I am very happy with the blaaaack.

It's hard to photo the new finish, I would have to say the blue looks 99% of of a new gun.
Thaks to the ones that helped.

Its amazing what lye and salt peter will do at 292F.





A couple of old Parker's 30-06,243 an old savage that my dads grandpa handed down. I had to make a new handle for the bolt.
No jokes about the wives flowers in my garage avoiding frost at night.
Enjoy.
STephen

[DLCTEX]

Please elaborate on formula used. How much lye and nitrate? One trip in the tank?
Dale

[scrapcan]

how about a picture of your hot blue setup. Tanks, burner, etc..

[fido]

1 lye to 1/2 potassium nitrate and dystilled water. You add salts till you bring up the boiling temp to 295f then add water to keep it there ( water evaporates as you are bluing), this is the worst part . Spitts lots of hot lye at you. Adding water to 295f water kinda like adding water to molten lead. Don't get it over 300f or your salts will die.
One soak in the salt for 20min.
I will take a pick of my tank not pritty but it works.

[BeeMan]

The formula sounds like what Linstrum posted some time ago. I recall he said to replenish boiled off water by adding ice. It melts and adds the water slowly. Can't recall if I needed to do this, as I only blued a few small parts a couple years ago. Yes, it gives nice results.

BeeMan

[fido]

I may have to try that in the future. Thanks

[DLCTEX]

Thanks, I need to reblue my 1911. I had thought I would use one of the paints or phosphates, but just couldn't get used to the idea. This is more like my taste. Dale.

[imashooter2]

Interesting thread on AR15.com about a guy that blued his pistol in an old crock pot:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=528694

[fido]

Kool link.
Thanks

[Molly]

> ...You add salts till you bring up the boiling temp to 295f then add water to keep it there ( water evaporates as you are bluing), this is the worst part . Spitts lots of hot lye at you. Adding water to 295f water kinda like adding water to molten lead.

Old gunners cure for this is to make a bowl of steel wire mesh - old fashioned window screen stuff. Turn it upside down and push a small dimple in the dome. Now use coat hanger wire to suspend it at one end of your salts tank, with the edge of the screen in the solution. Add water through the dimple. The water will still cause it to spatter like BLEEP, but it'll all be inside the mesh, with none aimed at you. Another approach is to use a short section of 4 to 6" pipe the same way, and put a steel mesh (take a magnet to the store) kitchen screener / sieve over the top before adding the water.

> Don't get it over 300f or your salts will die.

Well, I ran my tanks from 305f to 310f, but then agin, I was using a somewhat different formula.

HTH

[Molly]

Fellows, I used to help out some beginning 'smiths, and wrote up my blueing procedure for their reference. I thought I'd post it for the information of anyone interested. No guarantee that it's the best possible, but it's simple, easy, and worked well on a large variety of steels.

"Gun Bluing"
(Caustic Black Iron Oxide)

Bath Formula

Chemical Ingredient Weight Weight One
Symbol Materials Measure Ratio Gallon
H20 Water (softened) 4 Pounds 64 5.2 Pounds
NaOH Sodium Hydroxide 4 Pounds 64 5.2 Pounds
NaNO3 Sodium Nitrate 1 Pound 16 1.3 Pounds
NaNO2 Sodium Nitrite 1 Ounce 1 1.3 Ounces

Some Primary Hazards
(A partial listing)

Dry NaNO2 and NaNO3 are potential high explosives that can be ignited by heat or shock. NaOH will rapidly attack and dissolve skin, flesh, clothing, aluminum, zinc and tin. Spills should be flushed quickly with vinegar or lemonade to neutralize the caustic and minimize damage. Mixing dry NaOH and water generates a LOT of heat, and can cause the tanks to boil over suddenly. Use already prepared commercial 50% caustic solutions available from many chemical companies or supply houses, or be sure that the caustic is added and dissolved in small quantities, and is allowed to cool between caustic adds.

Bath Operation

If a used bath won’t work, try adding a little more caustic or nitrate before you re-make the solution from scratch. Wear caustic resistant gloves, aprons and eye protection at all times.
The solution tanks must be stainless steel, steel or plain iron (not galvanized), with welded seams. Soldered or brazed seams will dissolve in the bath and ruin the solution, tanks, and whatever gets leaked on.
Add water if it is necessary to cool the bath or lower the boiling temperature. Just turning the heat down will not let it work properly, as it must be boiling gently. Adjust the bath to boil at 275 F (135 C) to 302 F (150 C) by adding water slowly through a large fine steel mesh to catch spattering caustic. Don’t go over 310 F (155 C), or the solution will be damaged.
Preparation: Polish metal as required. Bluing will not cover poor polishing. It will only make poorly polished white steel into poorly polished black steel. Degrease the metal, preferably by boiling in a detergent or caustic degreasing solution. Then put them in the hot bath right away. Otherwise, protect polished parts from rust with light oil until ready to degrease and blue them.
Do not put non-ferrous parts in the bath, as they will dissolve, ruining the part and probably the bath as well. Anything a magnet won't pull on (like wood, glass, aluminum, plastic or stainless steel) won’t blue.
Do not plug the bores: The high temperature will cause the pressure in the barrel to increase, and may pop the plugs out and splatter caustic. Instead of plugs, handle parts with steel wire hooks or tongs. Hang them out of contact with the sides or bottom of the tank, but small parts can be placed in a steel wire basket. Let them boil for ~ 10 minutes, then remove and rinse in clean, cold running water. Check color after scrubbing with clean, degreased “0000" steel wool. Return to the tank as necessary until the color is satisfactory. Rinse thoroughly in clean, cold running water. Dry parts, oil and reassemble gun.

Trouble Shooting

Color problems: No bluing color or a powdery black that scrubs off can be caused by a bath that’s worn out or damaged from overheating, wrong amounts of chemicals or (in old baths) by caustic being used up by CO2 in the air. Poor blackening or red or purple tints can be caused by combinations of too low temperature, copper contamination, insufficient NaNO3, very high carbon steel, cast iron or insufficient time in the bath. Slight traces of copper or copper salts will poison the solution and give a red tint to the color, or will stop the bath from working altogether. Splotchy spots with no color or mottled colors are from poor cleaning or oil contamination in the bath. Sometimes this can be fixed while bluing by scrubbing with degreased “0000" steel wool. Green or pale blue colors can be caused by low temperature or not enough boiling action in the bath.

[fido]

Good info Molly Thsnks.
Brownells info says not to use stainless tanks. I think it has something to do with the chromium disolving in the bath.
Stephen

[fido]

or maybe chromate?

[Molly]

Good info Molly Thsnks.
Brownells info says not to use stainless tanks. I think it has something to do with the chromium disolving in the bath.
Stephen

Could be, I dunno. But I never had any problems, and it was sure nice not to have to deal with a rusting rinse tank all the time.

Hmmm. You know, there are TWO types of stainless steel: One based on chrome, and one based on nickel. Maybe mine were the nickle type. I dunno.

[fido]

It might have something to do with disposal. Baaaaad for the environment are chromates.
Stephen

[scrapcan]

Fido,

It is interestign that you talk about chromates. While working in an environmental lab that was on it's own sewer system we had to collect the potassium dichromate that we used for organic carbon analysis. Yet our sister lab in another town could just dump it into the drain. Never could understand their willingness to follow the dilution is the solution attitude. To me the contaminant is still there, just below som set limit or arbitrary value. Same thing goes for film developers.

Anyway I did not mean to hijack the thread.

[fido]

The reason I am familiar with it is in the past chemical plants used to use it in the cooling towers. I think it was to control the growth of algae and other critters. Or maybe it was corrosion. Can't remember. Anyway it is baaaad for the environment and humans. I think there was a movie made about it.
Erin Brockivich or something like that. I just looked it up it was chromium.
probly not much difference health wise.
Be cool play safe kids
Stephen

[DLCTEX]

Is caustic Soda the same as lye? I can get a lot of it from the oil field work here. There was a bag lying on the shoulder of the road a while back. Dale

[Molly]

Is caustic Soda the same as lye? I can get a lot of it from the oil field work here. There was a bag lying on the shoulder of the road a while back. Dale

Yes, Caustic Soda IS the same as Lye, just a different name, that's all. But be careful, and do some serious thinking before you pick that bag up! No offense intended, but the fact that you needed to ask suggests that you are not familiar with the stuff. It's nothing for the uninformed to play with! See my post on blueing formula in this thread.

Caustic is DANGEROUS stuff, and no mistake. Not only will it dissolve most anything organic (like shoes, clothes, skin, hair and eyeballs) in a bloody hurry, but it gives off heat when it's dissloved in water. In fact, it gives off so much heat that - unless done right - it can result is a sort of volcanic type eruption from the sudden generation of a lot of steam, and throw boiling hot caustic solution all over the area. Believe me, one time will provide all the entertainment of that sort you will ever need. Not to mention plenty of unattractive scar tissue when the injury finally manages to heal. Caustic burns do not heal rapidly. And simply touching the stuff is enough to get burnt very badly. It can - and probably will - take a lot of the skin off of your hands very nearly as fast as you can take a pair of work gloves off your hands. And it will feel like you had your hand stuck in boiling water.

If you have a legitimate use for the stuff, let me suggest you visit the nearest neighborhood chemical plant and buy some that is already dissolved. It's commercially available in several concentrations, but 50/50 is probably the most common. I also strongly suggest that you look up the MSDS of caustic on the internet, and learn something about the stuff before you use it for anything at all.

[DLCTEX]

I am somewhat familiar with caustic soda, we used it in a vat to clean engine blocks when we were in the auto/tractor repair business. I was never in on mixing the solution, as we had and old fellow who insisted on every one clearing the area while he mixed it. After he left, we got a steam cleaner. I was also around it when I did a stint roughnecking, a derrick hand used it one time to melt ice off the boards he stood on. It didn't take long to learn not to look up, as that really burned your eye. He mixed some in water and used it to clean the grime off his aluminum hard hat, really made it shine. A worm(new hand) saw it and wanted to know how he did it, so was instructed to remove the liner and soak it for a while in the bucket. Of course it melted. You could lay a Coors beer can on a broken bag and the next day nothing was left but the clear coat and logo in the shape of the can. I just was never aware that it was the same as lye, but when caustic was mentioned in the above tread I made the connection. I was also around when lye was used in soap making when I was a kid. Dale