Help with buffers and multiple RB loads

[geargnasher]

I did a search and read both the Dixie Slug Tri-ball threads, lots of good information there, but I still have some questions about needing buffer.

I'm loading two-ball, 2-3/4" 16-gauge shells for fun and to get my two single-shot guns out of the safe and played with more. Both guns are smoothbores with at least modified chokes. I'm using Remington hulls and SP-16 wads with the ribs inside each petal. A .562" Lee roundball cast of air-cooled wheel weights fits perfectly in the wad inside the shell, and passes the choke inside the wad with a firm push of a cleaning rod, so I figured the ribs would actually help get a hard, undersized ball out of the guns without damaging the choked part of the barrel. I've shot a handfull of them in both guns and they work pretty well. Choke gauge indicates zero damage to the chokes, so that's a good thing.

My concerns were the balls squishing together when fired and swelling enough to damage the chokes, but Dixie Slugs indicated that wheel weight metal was sufficient to keep that from happening. I also noticed he uses buffer (spherical, I think) to help support the ball column. I only have the BPI original compacting buffer on hand, so I vibrated that under the first ball and in between the two after adding the second. The buffer pretty much is ruining the cases by making a thick, melted mess inside the hulls, and it also makes a mess in the barrel.

So do I really need any buffer with a two-ball load? I could care less about accuracy really, I'm looking to get both balls on a milk jug at 25 yards and it does that no problem, but if I could eliminate the filler I'd be a happy camper. Not sure exactly if the filler is for support or patterning. If I need it, should I be using spherical filler, or maybe a cereal filler like cream of wheat?

Any help would be greatly appreciated from any of you with experience loading two or three-ball shotgun loads.

Gear

[NSP64]

I loaded single and 2 ball loads for 20 and 12 ga and never used a buffer.

[HiVelocity]

I've not tried this yet.

BUT, if I have this same problem with the 12 gauge, I would try putting a dab of hot glue on the top portion of the bottom ball. Let it dry sufficiently. The place the second ball on top of the glue "pad" and crimp as normal.

Just food for thought.

HV

[geargnasher]

HV, I've actually thought about that, making a double-cup cushion out of hot glue. Hot glue isn't all that strong when cooled (the low-temp, hobby stuff anyway) but I'll bet it would help. Coating the balls with graphite or silicone spray beforehand might help them split apart, too. I'm not looking for tight groups with this, just consistent pairing of the balls.

Gear

[diehard]

I've only shot the buffered versions of the three-ball load (which pattern quite well), but Mr Gates has published buffered and non-buffered loads on several forums. He seems to have been quite active on the Beartooth site some time ago.

Here is a link to a discussion about the evolution of his three-ball "Hog Cruncher" load:
http://www.shootersforum.com/shotgun...-cruncher.html (scroll to post #10 for a reference to ommitting buffer).

Of course later loads include the buffer. Search James Gates on that forum for lots of interesting reading.

[singleshot]

Gear, I've loaded hundreds of multiple ball rounds with no buffer. I've found that if I keep pressure down around 10k psi or less I've had good accuracy and NO issues with my hulls. I've even loaded mixed lead and steel shot this way with excellent results.

I'm waiting on a .60 cal mould from MAVEN to test in my 20 gauge and plan to use the same approach.

With max loads, buffer should help the load stay together, but I've found varying pressure makes more of a difference in pattern.

[singleshot]

You might also consider "buffering" with a 7.5 or #9 shot, I've tried that with good results and great effect as well.

[geargnasher]

I think I'll just delete the filler, I just wanted a little confirmation. Compared to equal-weight of shot loads, the pressure should be around 9,000 PSI, I'm not trying to kill rhinos, but maybe piggies, communist jugs of water, rotten melons, etc.

Gear

[nanuk]

I want to load up RB's in shotshells also, and have started to acquire moulds for the purpose

now, I have been wondering... if the soft shot loads don't raise pressures that much, why would round balls? RB's would certainly not bump up more than the shot.... and you are using less than three, so even less weight...

unless one is using a really stout load, and full diameter balls, I really cannot see it being an issue to pressures, only perhaps patterns ( of two? )

and I have no intention of pushing anything to the limits regarding shotguns....

[geargnasher]

Nanuk, the balls will squish if not hard enough or fired with too much pressure, then they won't pass the choke with out putting a lot of pressure on it.

Gear

[nanuk]

ah... yeah... that choke thing.

I no longer own a shotgun with a choke, but for a 410, and that will soon lose it also.

so, if cyl bore, would it be as much of a concern?

[geargnasher]

It still has to pass the forcing cones, but the barrels are much thicker there.

Gear

[singleshot]

Resurrected to add an update...based on recommendations from other members here, I've tried Cream of wheat and used coffee grounds as buffer between balls. This seems to work better than other things I've tried. In 20 ga. I load .6 balls over a gas seal, no wad, and fill the empty space with COW or coffee grounds. Roll crimp. I like Steel powder for this, but have been experimenting with 2400, which shows promise with very heavy 20 ga loads, ie. 2 or 3 325 grain round balls.

Gear, how did your experiments go?

[RMc]

To develop top performing a 16 gauge double ball buckshot load, I would advise following the basic approach used by Dixie Slugs. Slow burning Blue Dot or Steel powder, Precision's spherical teflon buffer, none under the bottom ball. Check the available data - see the Ballistic Products VP80 http://www.ballisticproducts.com/VP80%20data.pdf. Divide the published payload by two for maximum ball weight. And send 5 shells off to be pressure tested - for your peace of mind - it is a minimal investment.
Ralph McLaney