Thanks Warboar_21

[tahoe2]

For sending me some 314299-GCRN to try, before spending a ton of money on casting equipment.
Well I finally got to shoot them through my 1909 Argentine Cavalry Carbine and my 1908 Brazilian
(Argentine) Carbine. Unfortunately the resulting groups were not impressive to say the least.
I'm sure it's no fault of the bullets, I pulled the loads out of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, using
IMR-4227 and IMR-4198. Both barrels slugged out at .312" and these are the first cast I've put
through these Carbines. Groups were around 4"-6" @ 25 yards in one gun and 6"-8" in the other.
I did decide to try some .313" bullets of the same design, and they should arrive soon. (1 week)
so any suggestions at this point? and thanks to all that respond.

[runfiverun]

16 grs of 2400.

[Scharfschuetze]

Tahoe2,

I have two Argentine 1891s and while I can't speculate on the bores of the Model 1909s like yours, I can tell you that the two bores on my 1891s are .301 X .311 and .303 X .313. Given that, the larger of the two won't shoot my 314299 boolits too well. I'm currently waiting on an NOE 316299 mold for my 303s, 7.7 Jap and the larger bored of the two 1891 rifle.

As your bore is in between my two rifles, my guess is that you might need something larger than those projos you just launched and I'll bet the new .313 boolits on order should show some improvement for you.

+1 on the 2400 powder selection above. I'm partial to SR 4759 in the 30 cal military cartridges using cast boolits, but there is nothing wrong with your choice of powders either.

Looking at your location and choice of "carbines," I think that perhaps you have shot at the Paul Bunyan range a time or two. Am I on target with that guess?

[Larry Gibson]

Both IMR 4227 and IMR 4198 should work well in the 7.65 Argentine.

"I pulled the loads out of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook"

So what were those loads?

Did you use a Dacron filler?

Were the 314299s sized .314?

Larry Gibson

[tahoe2]

Both loads were 1 grn below the listed max of 25 & 26 grns, so 24 & 25 grns for a published velocity
somewhere just below 1900 fps & 1920 fps (out of a 29" Bbl) with a probable 100-150 fps drop off in
the carbine barrels (maybe more).

I did not use a filler.

Yes they were sized to .314"

Thinking about trying to find some Accurate 5744

I have done very little development with J-bullets, but so far I have had very decent
results with Hornady 150 grn .312" SST's and Speer 180 grn moly round nose .311",
both of those grouped 2" to 2-1/2" @ 50 yards, that's a 200+ yard load.

And fair results with Speer and Sierra 150grn .311"; 3" to 4" @ 50 yards, these are
sufficient enough for deer hunting out to 150 yards or so.

these are iron sighted guns

I really don't want to launch cast any slower than that !!(1750-1850 fps)

I'm getting 2400-2600 fps out of J-bullets, I hunt some 200 yard clear cuts as well
as the usual tight timbers of Western Washington. And I like the trajectory factor.

Paul Bunyan range ?? Don't know where that is ?

[enfield]

I shoot about 19 - 20 gr 4227 with the 314299 and I think the limiting factor is the sights.

[Larry Gibson]

tahoe2

If you still want to use one or both of those powders start at the "starting load", use a 3/4 gr Dacron filler and work up to the load you tried.

Everything else looks good.

Larry Gibson

[tahoe2]

Waiting on bullets to arrive .313", and then the development will continue.
Range reports to follow !

[warboar_21]

I just saw the thread. You are welcome for the bullets. You had me worried since I read .312" as I was sure they sized to .314". Hopefully these guys can get you pointed in the right direction since I have no experience with that particular caliber.

[tahoe2]

warboar; yes the bullets you sent were in fact .314" ( and beautifully made, I might add!), my barrels slug out at .312" and
they shoot .311" j-bullets pretty fair. I managed to find some Hornady SST 150 grns @ .312" that shot extremely well in the
Brazilian but haven't tried them in the Argentine yet. The Brazilian is a 1908 action w/1909 Cavalry Carbine stock & barrel in
(7.65x53) and seems to be more picky about it's likes & dislikes than the 1909 Argy Carbine, I just need to keep working it.
I'd like to get it dialed in by October (deer season), but I have others I can use if I'm not happy with it!
Trying to achieve the 2000 fps threshold for a decent trajectory, might try some SR-4759 or AA-5744, if I can find em?

[warboar_21]

My Enfields shoot the .311" 174gr Sierra Match Kings pretty well for barrels that slug out at .312" as well. The 150gr Hornady bullets also shoot well from either one of the rifles as well. I haven't pushed for the 2000fps velocity with cast in these rifles because I was only looking for plinking loads. I hope you are able to get the results you are looking for.

[tahoe2]

I usually don't shoot fmj or match bullets, as all my development is geared towards hunting. I do realize that castboolits
are a completely different animal, but I am after hunting performance out to 200-250 yards or so, and 2000 fps is the
"happy medium", If I can't achieve those results with decent accuracy, I'll just stick with j-bullets and avoid the casting
equipment expense.

[Scharfschuetze]

In that case, the Hornady 150 grain spitzer at .312" diameter over 4895 should fix you right up.