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Thread: 75,000 Wadcutters in a Model 27

  1. #201
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    You just sold a thousand rounds of that brass. Contact them for your commission check.
    I was told by one of the tech support fellows at Starline that "the boss man" gleans tidbits of tech-intel from various firearm blogs and websites, that he read this thread, and afterwards (about a year ago) revised their specs for ordinary .38 Special brass.

    If you need thick-walled .38 Special brass to maintain adequate bullet pull with .357" diameter J-words, then you should buy the +P headstamped .38 Special brass for assembling your "barrel polluter" loads.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-07-2021 at 07:29 PM.
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  2. #202
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Popular wisdom is that .38 wadcutters don't provide linear dispersion in proportion to the range beyond 50 yards or so. This is true with the slow 18-3/4" twist S&W barrels firing light factory wadcutters, but ain't necessarily so in fast-twist PPC guns firing full charge loads with cast wadcutters.

    A fellow named Bill Duncan, who lives in Alaska published an article in The Fouling Shot a year or so back, in which he tested full-charge wadcutters in his ten-inch twist Bob Day PPC gun at 200 yards, using a scoped revolver to aim at a highly elevated aiming point and dropping rounds in plunging fire through the target, making highly acceptable groups.

    He's planning a followup firing some of my Saeco #348, double-end, bevel-based wadcutter bullets cast from 1 to 30 tin-lead from Roto Metals. Stay tuned.
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  3. #203
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    My boolit looks the same loaded as post #1 but I am using 3.7 of American Select over Bullseye and sizing on a Star lube sizer with an H&G mold. What are the better 10 shot groups at 25 yards people are shooting with a wheel gun with open sights? <OLD THREAD STILL ALIVE but I didn't dig it up. I am into bench shooting every week. I have a case of wad cutter brass once fired in original Winchester boxes sitting on the shelf but haven't found the need for it.

  4. #204
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    So a Colt with its 14" twist, IIRC, should do better at longer ranges than a S&W because of projectile stability, right? Maybe not to 200 yards, but it is something more to try.

    Robert

  5. #205
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Popular wisdom is that .38 wadcutters don't provide linear dispersion in proportion to the range beyond 50 yards or so. This is true with the slow 18-3/4" twist S&W barrels firing light factory wadcutters, but ain't necessarily so in fast-twist PPC guns firing full charge loads with cast wadcutters.

    A fellow named Bill Duncan, who lives in Alaska published an article in The Fouling Shot a year or so back, in which he tested full-charge wadcutters in his ten-inch twist Bob Day PPC gun at 200 yards, using a scoped revolver to aim at a highly elevated aiming point and dropping rounds in plunging fire through the target, making highly acceptable groups.

    He's planning a followup firing some of my Saeco #348, double-end, bevel-based wadcutter bullets cast from 1 to 30 tin-lead from Roto Metals. Stay tuned.
    Now that is interesting.
    The popular wisdom also believes the button nose wadcutter is slightly more aerodynamic than the flat faces double end wadcutters. That test would be interesting to see the results.

    At my skill level, I have no business shooting at anything with a handgun beyond 50(probably closer to 25) yards, scoped or not, but lots of people are much better than I am. Still good knowledge to have.

  6. #206
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Now that is interesting.
    The popular wisdom also believes the button nose wadcutter is slightly more aerodynamic than the flat faces double end wadcutters. That test would be interesting to see the results.

    At my skill level, I have no business shooting at anything with a handgun beyond 50(probably closer to 25) yards, scoped or not, but lots of people are much better than I am. Still good knowledge to have.
    Yes! The reason Bill wanted some of my Saeco #348 to try is because they are flat-faced, double-end, bevel-based and he wanted to compare them against the H&G #50 with the button nose. Great minds think in the same track. You get gold star to stick on your forehead!
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  7. #207
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I was told by one of the tech support fellows at Starline that "the boss man" gleans tidbits of tech-intel from various firearm blogs and websites, that he read this thread, and afterwards (about a year ago) revised their specs for ordinary .38 Special brass.

    If you need thick-walled .38 Special brass to maintain adequate bullet pull with .357" diameter J-words, then you should buy the +P headstamped .38 Special brass for assembling your "barrel polluter" loads.
    Within the last two months I bought 1K Starline 38 Special +P brass, because it was available and the standard brass was not. Their website said, it was just the same as the standard brass with the exception of the headstamp. So, two minutes ago, I fished one out and ran my Starrett adjustable hole gage into it to see how long the straight sides were before there was a inside taper.

    Sure enough the +P brass is just like the standard with the long straight wadcutter style internal dimensions.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #208
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Thanks for that clarification. I had old info.
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  9. #209
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    [QUOTE=Mk42gunner;5184664]So a Colt with its 14" twist, IIRC, should do better at longer ranges than a S&W because of projectile stability, right? Maybe not to 200 yards, but it is something more to try.

    Robert[/QUOT ---- I have a model 19-3 with a 1 in 14'' and my shooting buddy has a model 27 hb with 1 in 14''. I saw him shoot a 1.3'' 10 shot bench with open sights at 25 yards last week with one out a little using an Xtreme plated 148 dewc with 38 brass. His 1 in 14'' groups better than his 1 in 10''. xxxxxx<I measured some military head stamp brass last night and they were .003 thicker>While WE WERE AT IT we checked the speed and the plated 148 dewc was almost 100 fps slower than a lead dewc with the same load.
    Last edited by 45DUDE; 05-08-2021 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #210
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Yes! The reason Bill wanted some of my Saeco #348 to try is because they are flat-faced, double-end, bevel-based and he wanted to compare them against the H&G #50 with the button nose. Great minds think in the same track. You get gold star to stick on your forehead!
    I am definitely interested on the results of that test.
    And thanks for the gold star.

    I did some computations last night on how fast you need to push a boolit in a slower twist barrel in order to get the same spin rate(RPM) as the faster twist with a slower muzzle velocity. At some point it gets kind of ridiculous. You would need to use a full power 357 mag load to get the same RPM as the fast twist barrel in a 38 special target load.
    Kind of counter productive for most target uses, but it does explain why full power loads tend to be more accurate at distance than slower cartridges.

  11. #211
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    I've used both the flat and button nose. Within 25yrds I've not noticed any deviation from the standard norm but I have not used a Ransom Rest with my Model 15 using Promo of different velocities
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  12. #212
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    I've used both the flat and button nose. Within 25yrds I've not noticed any deviation from the standard norm but I have not used a Ransom Rest with my Model 15 using Promo of different velocities
    Would not have expected any at 25 yards. The only complaints I ever heard were at 50 and beyond.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Would not have expected any at 25 yards. The only complaints I ever heard were at 50 and beyond.
    I'm not good enough to notice that.
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  14. #214
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    I'm not good enough to notice that.
    Neither am I.

  15. #215
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    The thing that made me aware of WC brass was loading cast wadcutters into military brass for my Colt Trooper Mk III. The boolits were from a Saeco mold that has a square base and a very low profile button that has a very flat, maybe ten degree, point on the button. The square base swelled the brass to the point that the cartridges would stick in the chambers near the bases of the boolits.

    Swaged HBWCs were so soft that they conformed to the ID of the cartridges without bulging. Back then I was casting at a friend’s house. I haven’t loaded swaged boolits since I got my own casting equipment which I started accumulating 40 years ago.

    In addition to the Colt, I’m fortunate to have a 4” heavy barreled Model 10, a gorgeous 6” Model 17 and a custom S&W based PPC wadcutter only with a 6” slab sided barrel and rib sight. I LOVE shooting wadcutters!
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbcaster45 View Post
    Well... since this thread is still active!

    This is about the best I can do offhand anymore with my +60 year old eyeballs And yes, I cheated and used swaged Speer Boolits!

    Sizer Die: Lee Undersized .38 Super Die
    RCBS Wadcutter Expander Die
    C-H Wadcutter Seating Die
    RCBS .38 Special Taper Crimp Die

    Bullet: Speer 148 gr. HBWC
    Powder: Alliant Bullseye 2.8 grs.
    Primer: Federal 100 Small Pistol
    Case: Federal .38 Special
    LOAL: 1.155

    Forgot to pack tools to adjust the sights... but I was close! Six shots at 25 yards with a Clark PPC Revolver.

    Attachment 209487
    I need to try my handloads off the bags... got a little aggravated when Federal Gold Medal Match outshot my handloaded rounds. But I shot those groups offhand!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #218
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks Creeker!

  19. #219
    Boolit Master LAH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbcaster45 View Post
    Thanks Creeker!
    A little more about that sixgun?

  20. #220
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    It's a S&W Model 10-3 that I had worked on by Clark Custom Guns. Slicked up action, Aristocrat Sight Rib, Polished and Radiused Trigger with Trigger Stop, Crane Lock and Douglas barrel. I'm not sure about the barrel twist but I think it's a 1:14.
    Last edited by pbcaster45; 10-14-2022 at 04:14 PM. Reason: grammer

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check