It wouldn't be ideal for HD, but some hunters are limited to using buckshot and that's where the flight control stuff really shines.Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
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It wouldn't be ideal for HD, but some hunters are limited to using buckshot and that's where the flight control stuff really shines.
Well because of this thread and my own choice of home defense round I went out yesterday after noon to try my round out. Well it blew up those milk jugs just fine at ranges that would be in my house so I am going to stick with it.
Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
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Don't know what your round is, but remember that milk jugs don't have heavy layers of clothing, tough muscle tissue, or rib cages to punch through.
The more concentrated the pattern, the deadlier the shotgun is, even with buckshot. It means you hit your intended target and not something else due to a too large spread.
It also has applications through windshield glass and such, as the point of impact is small, but the weight behind the point of impact is large. Does better through windshield glass than dispersed buckshot.
Still not as overpenetrative as a slug. Once those buckshot hit a target, they carve their own separate wound paths. The wounding effect is tremendous.
Makes buckshot a more viable round at distance, reducing the need for a slug, or the need for a tactical reload to "top off" with a slug when ordinarily the distance is too long for regular buckshot. Makes the shotgun with buckshot a short to moderate range weapon, instead of just a short range weapon.
Since you gotta be on target anyway, there's really no downside at short range. It might not be necessary, but it doesn't hurt much either.
If we're assuming that extra dispersion makes the target easier to hit at short range, it must be admitted nothing is very dispersed at close range no matter the load.
Agreed that in the home you arent going to be far enough away for any shot shell to open up enough to be an advantage over another. So there is see no advantage to flight contol wads or any other wad. At 20 yards buck in a normal open choked gun does open up and opens up enough that a guy that has his heart pounding in the heat of a gun fight might actually hit something and not have to aim as precisely as with a rifle. Thats a big advantage to a civilian thats never been in a gun fight and even an advantage to most police officers as most will never see a real gunfight. Id say the chance of a civilian needing to shoot someone past 25 yards is going to be as rare as getting hit by lightning twice in the same day and if it happens to me i sure hope im carrying a rifle and have a good lawyer on retainer. to me using something like a flight control wad or even a choked barrel is defeating the whole purpose of a shotgun for self defense. Its no doubt why the military and police use only open choked shotguns. The absolute only advantage i see to tightening a buck pattern for any civilian is in a case like unique dot mentioned where a guy can only use buck for hunting. Id say that where you have a choise in what to use for hunting its probably a 100 to 1 guys choosing slugs over buckshot.
Some of what was shot at was heavy wood pallets and it went through that and did the damage I want. This is the only way I know of testing what you plan on using if needed. The water jugs where for pattern test did what I wanted there so I am confident in my choice.
The only other test would be real life situation and I hope to never be in one. But one never knows anymore.
Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
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Veteran
Lloyd, the police get into gunfights with hostiles that are similar in range to what civilians would see, when we are talking about shootings outside the home. They are switching, at the department level, to loads using the Flitecontrol wad in droves.
If they think it has value, ordinary people should give the shell very, very strong consideration when shotgun usage outside of the home is contemplated, as when in traveling by vehicle, etc.
Agreed, not necessary for home use. But to discount it completely is to ignore its great popularity with police departments. That doesn't seem very sensible. Since the hit probability of a shotgun is far higher than with any pistol, even with slugs and tightly patterning buckshot, it is clear that Flitecontrol is being adopted en masse by police departments for reasons having to do with superior performance and much more buckshot on target.
Its use should be given more than just fleeting thought. You may wish to have a few in the side saddle carrier of the gun or at the bottom of the tube magazine, even if you don't want it as the first rounds in the chamber or magazine.
Again, if it was completely useless, police departments wouldn't buy it. Their gunfights aren't all that different from what you might, and very possibly will, see in your own circumstances.
Government purchases are susceptible to marketing BS, just like everyone else. I'm not saying that is the case in this situation, but you can't just think that what the government does makes sense.
I don't see a need for it with buckshot loads as far as my needs, but i do desire it for turkey loads. I have loaded my own shotshells for twenty odd years though so unless the wads become available for reloading i guess i will just keep using what i currently use. I suspect that if Hornady were to get enough requests for their version they would make them available for handloading since they are usually great at offering components to their customers when enough requests come in for it.So there is no advantage to flight control wads or any other wad.
Collin, police procurers are human just like anyone else. If it's bogus, they'll sniff it out eventually after the "bandwagon effect" wears off. There's been plenty of opportunity by police to evaluate it, and that evaluation has been favorable.
No marketing BS here, and as you said that's not relevant to this particular application. Does what a choke does, only better, and the option of more open patterns is a simple shell switch away. A full choke cannot match what a cylinder (chokeless) barrel does with the Flitecontrol wad and buckshot.
I work in a government office. Most of the time what we do makes sense. Some of the time it does not. Pretty much the same as in any other business, really.
I hope you don't mind...I fixed your typo. You had most and some in the wrong place.I work in a government office. Some of the time what we do makes sense. Most of the time it does not. Pretty much the same as in any other business, really.
I hope you don't mind...I fixed your typo. You had most and some in the wrong place.
Careful!
You could cause someone to choke on their coffee.
I still wonder how the conversation went from Home Defense Loads (usually at around 15 ft inside of a house) to guaranteed blowing away of someone at 30+ yards outside of a house or through a windshield.
Around here,,, if you shoot someone outside,,, you better drag them into your house without leaving any evidence.
Not everyone lives in a place to restrictive... Around here, if a criminal is escaping with your property, you can shoot them, even if they are in their car driving away...
I would think that if you really are located in the SoCal desert, you would drag the body *away* from your house... Wouldn't be the first body that was never found out in the desert, I suspect... Or is that just in the desert near Vegas?
I agree with 35 here, a shot sleeve that stays with the load for awhile, drops away cleanly and almost totally removes the chance of shot deformation will do far more than a garden hose effect of a choke (and i am a huge fan of more than less choke), as well as give you the option of range selection based on load, not choke in the gun. What that has to do with this thread on the other hand seems limited because i'm happy to have a little spread at HD distance because it won't affect the effectivness to have a bit more dispersed pattern to give some margin for error.
Raisin' Black Angus cows, outta gas, outta money, outta tags, low on boolits, but full 'a hope on the Rocky Mountain Eastern Slope!
Why does a man with a 7mag never panic buy? Because a man with a 7mag has no need to panic!
"If you ain't shootin', you should be reloadin' if you ain't reloadin' you should be movin', if you ain't movin', somebody's gonna come by and cut your head off and put it on a stick!" Words to fight by, from Clint Smith
Affect the effectivness? *shrug* seemed like a smart thing to say when i typed it at least...
Raisin' Black Angus cows, outta gas, outta money, outta tags, low on boolits, but full 'a hope on the Rocky Mountain Eastern Slope!
Why does a man with a 7mag never panic buy? Because a man with a 7mag has no need to panic!
"If you ain't shootin', you should be reloadin' if you ain't reloadin' you should be movin', if you ain't movin', somebody's gonna come by and cut your head off and put it on a stick!" Words to fight by, from Clint Smith
I think its great here. Even if you dont agree with everything someone else is using you get at least a mixture of opinions and experiences that you can weed through and pick up tips. 35 rem i really like one thought of yours. Even if i feel there really not needed for home defense its surely not a bad idea to put a couple in the saddle on my two pump guns for just in case. I can also see a use for them if it ever came to a shtf senerio. One other reason ive come to load 4 00 buck under a load of #3 is funtioning in a semi auto. Ive found even when loading 8 OO with a wad i can get bulging of the case enough so they dont run in my saiga. The mixed load seems to not have that problem. What ive come to except is that when loading OO about the only way to do it and INSURE reliability is with over the powder cards and fiber wads. Ive tried about avery wad i could find and still havent found a combo that gives a 100 percent reliability with OO. I guess a guy could cut the peddles off the plastic wads but a buddy gave me a lifetime supply of wads and cards. I dont know if id have the same problem with the wads your refering to or not. The pump guns arent so bad as you can usually make even the iffy ones chamber without much efford but the 1100s and my saiga need perfect ammo to run right. Just a chuckle but i was out yesterday with the saiga shooting steal and as fast as you can crank off 10 rounds of buck i dont think it would matter if you loaded rocks. Youd about cut a man in half in seconds!! Even at 50 yards using my mixed load you put enough pellets on target to introduce him to his maker. I was just telling my buddy yesterday that ive had well over a 100 guns in my life probably pushing close to 200. I dont think ive had more chuckles with any gun ive owned then i do when i shoot that saiga!
This wouldn't be the first time this forum has had a thread that drifted a little off topic, and given that we're still discussing buckshot and shotguns, it hasn't "drifted" off topic all that much. I've seen worse.
I surely wouldn't want Lloyd banging away at me with a semiauto Saiga, either, no matter what was in it.
But as I've explained before, the less shooting that goes on in your home, the safer you and your related occupants will be. Shells that get the job done sooner rather than later in a gunfight are the best idea of all.
Yeah, even after 98 posts, it hasn't morphed into a sex or politics topic yet... That has to be a record for a topic on the internet...
Something else i remembered that has to do with birdshot. I met a fellow about 25 years ago that was shot in the stomach with a load of birdshot and the guy said the man that shot him pressed the barrel to his stomach and pulled the trigger as he was sitting on the sofa. His scars looked horrible and he lost a good portion of his stomach, but he was still here to tell the story. I suspect buckshot or even coyote shot would have severed his spine.
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