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Thread: Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06

  1. #41
    Banned - Posts Deleted Because He Edited Them With Vulgarity When He Could Not Get His Way
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    I agree that there should be a "sticky" regarding these ultralight loads. I haven't gotten around to them yet in the 308, 7.5x55, and '06, but have plans to try them. The NOE version of the 311008 should do the job, or the Lee 311-100-2R.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall623 View Post
    Larry I've heard of this but never have read or been told why ,can you explain in more detail why this happens. I'm sorry for sidetracking someones thread Tim I'm talking about the shortning of the head space
    Mr. Gibbs,
    You mention LLA in your article on Mouse Fart Loads. What type of lube is this?

  3. #43
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    LLA= Lee Liquid Alox

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I'd go with 3.2 gr Bullseye under that 93 gr Lee bullet. Tumle lightly in LLA and size at .311. A .31 cal M die will work a bit better than the .30 M die for the PB'd smallish .311 sized bullets.

    Larry Gibson
    Mr Gibson,

    Have you tried Trail Boss powder for your mouse fart loads? I would like to try this powder in a 30-06 case. Would you use a heavy or light bullet to start? For me sound level has a higher priority than velocity. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks Oshiro708

  5. #45
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    A stratagy that has worked for me is to adjust the powder charge to match the point of impact to my sights set for my deer hunting loads. Then live with the report and recoil. Using bullseye or red dot this is usually almost not existant with light for caliber boolits.
    The man who invented the plow was not bored. He was hungry.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oshiro708 View Post
    Mr Gibson,

    Have you tried Trail Boss powder for your mouse fart loads? I would like to try this powder in a 30-06 case. Would you use a heavy or light bullet to start? For me sound level has a higher priority than velocity. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks Oshiro708
    I have not tried Trail Boss with these loads. I use Bullseye because it has worked for many, many many years and isn't broke so I've not tried to fix it. Seriously, the real reason I've not tried Trail Boss is I just haven't gotten around to it yet.....so much to shoot, so many rocks, pine cones and cow pies that need killin'.......

    Larry Gibson

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I have not tried Trail Boss with these loads. I use Bullseye because it has worked for many, many many years and isn't broke so I've not tried to fix it. Seriously, the real reason I've not tried Trail Boss is I just haven't gotten around to it yet.....so much to shoot, so many rocks, pine cones and cow pies that need killin'.......

    Larry Gibson
    Mr. Gibson,

    Would I be able to use rifle cast bullets instead of pistol cast bullets with mouse fart loads?

  8. #48
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    Oshiro,
    I cant answer for Larry Gibson, But if you want to test light loads in longer bullets, be sure to bring a brass rod to the range.
    My experimenting, looking for quiet loads, has led to bullets not exiting the barrel.
    To lazy to chase arrows.
    Clodhopper

  9. #49
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    Oshiro , I don't know if my loads would fit the catagory but I have been using Unique and Universal clays to make mid to heavy thirty caliber bullet get to around eleven hundred feet per second or so . My interest in Bullseye is that I might get better accuracy and economy at the same time so I'm just starting to work with that .

    If it's any help to you ...... I just made up a load using six point two of Bullseye in a 303 British case . Bullet is one of the "fat" 311291 bullets with one ring of Alox 50/50 and no gas check . If I had younger eyes I bet it would group into a single ragged hole . If the light is right you can see the bullet lumbering slowly downrange .

    Jack

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oshiro708 View Post
    Mr. Gibson,

    Would I be able to use rifle cast bullets instead of pistol cast bullets with mouse fart loads?
    [IBut if you want to test light loads in longer bullets, be sure to bring a brass rod to the range. My experimenting, looking for quiet loads, has led to bullets not exiting the barrel. ][/I]

    Very good advise, I always have a cleaning rod at the range with me whether I'm shooting such loads or not.

    I have taken rifle bullets in .30.31 nad 8mm of 150 - 220 gr down to 300 fps without sticking a bullet in the barrel. I think it was Paco Kelly that writes an artricle on how to do that. The key is to cast them of dead soft lead as Paco recommends. I push size them in Lee sizers if sizing is needed. and use LLA for the lube. Mostly I use them down to 500+ fps because having enough sight adjustment becomes a real problem. Milsurps like the M1903 with a tall ladder sight work best.

    I don't use the heavier rifle bullets much any more if there is a good pistol bullet to use for that cartridge, although I still use the Lyman 225415 in the Hornet and .223, the Lyman 257283HP in the 25-20, the Lyman 266455s in the 6.5s, the RCBS 30-150-FN in my .30s, a GB 325-150-FN in my 8mms, a Lyman 375248 in the 375 H&H and a Rapine 460210HB or 460250 in my 45-70s. Mostly those are shot at 1050 - 1150 fps using Bullseye powder. PB'd soft cast pistol bullets in my rifles are mostly used at 800 - 950 fps over Bullseye. I only use one RB anymore and that is a 375 lubed with LLA over 4 gr Bullseye in the 375 H&H.

    Larry Gibson

  11. #51
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    Cat sneeze loads have a special place for me. I shoot them in my back yard here in rural south mississippi, but don't want to scare my free range chickens too bad. Here is a thread I started voicing appreciation for help with my 30-30 load. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94463
    My experience is, for a subsonic load, use bullseye, start at 2.5 grains, and work up .2 gr or so untill accuracy becomes what you want and hopefully before noise becomes what you don't want.
    Raise your gun's muzzle to situate the powder in back of the case and remember to follow through.
    Happy shooting, Jeffrey

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I'd go with 3.2 gr Bullseye under that 93 gr Lee bullet. Tumle lightly in LLA and size at .311. A .31 cal M die will work a bit better than the .30 M die for the PB'd smallish .311 sized bullets.

    Larry Gibson
    I loaded a few of that recipe last weekend. Sounds about like CB Long in a 22 rimfire. Bob hasn't put them on paper yet, just threw five of them at the dead tree/bullet stop in the back yard. Getting a little soot on the outside of the necks so apparently they aren't expanding enough to seal the case in the chamber. On the flip side of that the fired cases won't accept a boolit so it looks like all he will need to do is de/reprime and flare the necks just a touch before loading them again.

    Used the same charge in 30-30 and got about the same noise level but I will need to neck size to hold the next boolit. Was hoping to try mine on paper today but winds were gusting to 30 so I held of on that. Winds are supposed to be down tomorrow so I'm hoping to get in a long range session.

  13. #53
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    Use 2.7 gr in the 30-30 and you might not have to size the necks either, depending on cases used. I don't use the 3.2 gr load until I case capacity is from the .308W to the '06. The 2.7 gr load works best in 7.62x39 to .3300 Savage capacity cases. I shot a test one time out of my Mini MK X bolt action 7.62x39 with the 2.7 gr load under the 90 gr SWC using one case to see how many shots it would take before I had to size the necks. Got bored after 50 shots and gave up. Accuracy was excellent through out all 50 shots.

    Larry Gibson

  14. #54
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    Mr. Gibson,

    Is any amount of crimping required for these light loads?

    Oshiro708

  15. #55
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    I have played around with Trailboss in the 30-06 and found it gives good accuracy with a modified Lee 200 grn boolit . I was primarily concerned with getting some terminal performance happening and experimented with splitting the boolit by placing aluminium foil between the mould halves . This did not prove adequate as some boolits flew apart before reaching the target. To cut a long story short , a partially split boolit - leaving a solid section at the tip , with a drilled hollow point gave both excellent sub-sonic accuracy and good terminal performance in a half gallon water container .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buprW...1&feature=plcp

  16. #56
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    I got in some range time today.

    I ran both light loads I had, 3.2 BE and 5.0 Unique behind the Lee 93. Very similar sound and feel for each of them. The Unique load shot a tiny bit better at 25 yds and it matched the zero of my medium load, Lyman 311440 ahead of 19.0 IMR-4759, the BE load grouped about 2" out, high and right. I will play with BE more to see if I can get it to match zero as well. IIRC, the 311440 load matches my jacketed load at 50 as well. It's almost too much to hope for to get three loads that are so far apart, balisticly, to group close enough at plinking distances to require no sight fussing.

    There were three young folks who showed up just before I left. Got into talking with them and they all tried the Unique loads. Big smiles and "Gee, those are fun!" type comments. One of the guys was hitting clay pidgeons at 50 yds. and the girl with them put two into about 2" on paper at 50.

    Lots of potential there, I will definately be working with reduced loads to see just what they can be made to do.

    I need to do something better for a front sight on the 94 though. The white bead on there was graying out under the roof over the benches and my eyes weren't seeing it real well. I've got a Williams Foolproof on the rear with with a twilight aperture, just need a better front sight.

  17. #57
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    One time, just for the fun of it, I loaded 5 grains of Bullseye under some Lee 312-100-2Rs. Man, that's more fun than any six people can get a permit for!

    I was tempted to take my '06 'coon huntin' one night just to see what them boys would say when I got out the truck with it. I'd love to see the game warden's face when he walks up and sees I been killin' ringtails with an '06!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oshiro708 View Post
    Mr. Gibson,

    Is any amount of crimping required for these light loads?

    Oshiro708
    With single fed cartridges no. With 30-30s fed from the tube a slight crimp is need to prevent mag tube sping from pushing the bullets into the cases.

    Larry Gibson

  19. #59
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    been playinjg with 'cat sneeze' loads for some time now. red dot, 4756, and trail boss are what i've used, all with about equall success. from as little as about .8 gr. of red dot to about 3 grains of any of them, you can get so quiet that the firing pin makes more noise than the round, up to about cb cap level sound. at 2 gr. the load is like shooting an air rifle. had my 23 yr. old son at the range one time, and it was funny watching him shoot, giggle (ya... giggle!} theb reach for another round. the bullets i use range from 311 cast balls, and 00 buckshot, run through a .310 sizer, up to and including a 180 gr out of a lee mould. with 2 to 3 gr. and the 180 gr bullet, the bullet will go through a 1.25 treated luimber deck board at 50 yds!

  20. #60
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    These sound too fun to miss out on, but I'm scratchin' my head about accuracy.... How in the world can you get enough RPM's on a 30 cal projectile to be accurate with a 10-inch twist at 500-800 FPS ?????? (maybe that's why you use pistol boolits???)

    Inquiring minds want to know....

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check