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Thread: 308 Paper Patch

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Old Coot's Avatar
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    161 The picture of your crown doesn't look bad to me. It looks more like the muzzle crown of any cast bullet rifle with the "star" from spun off bullet lube as it exits the bore. You may be gettting a little too much lube on the bullets . Too much lube will cause more accuracy problems than you can believe.
    Brodie

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    The picture of your crown doesn't look bad to me.
    Are we seeing the same thing? Well Ok, I'll go back to the drawing board and re-examine what I thought I saw.

    Mmm... Ok. The build up looks shiny like lead deposits. But is it lead? It's shiny whatever it is and since for lead to get deposited like that seems far less likely than lube so I'll stand corrected. Photo's can be deceiving due to light effects. I know this from my own photo's so I should have known better than to jump to conclusions.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  3. #23
    Boolit Master 161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Are we seeing the same thing? Well Ok, I'll go back to the drawing board and re-examine what I thought I saw.

    Mmm... Ok. The build up looks shiny like lead deposits. But is it lead? It's shiny whatever it is and since for lead to get deposited like that seems far less likely than lube so I'll stand corrected. Photo's can be deceiving due to light effects. I know this from my own photo's so I should have known better than to jump to conclusions.
    It's lead...
    "Some times it's just better to smile an walk away."
    -161

    "Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
    -Butch Cassidy & the Sun-dance Kid

  4. #24
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n.h.schmidt View Post
    Hi
    pdawg shooter Could you tell us the name brand of the green bar printer paper? There seems to be more than one brand out there. I don't want to spend a fortune on the wrong stuff.
    161 I know some have had success with traceing paper but not me.I got the same results as you. It's very tough and you would think it would work. Tablets of vellum are easily available at the stores.25% and 100% rag vellum is available. The 25% is cheaper and I know it works. Old typewriting paper is about perfect but now very hard to find. Copy paper works but is about too thick at 20#. To bad as it's everywhere and dirt cheap.
    n.h.schmidt
    What I use is Office Max paper, cause that's what we use whee I work. You can guess where we get it! It has printing on it but the bullets don't seem to mind much.
    45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Green bar paper

    OK Thanks pdawg shooter
    I have a office max near me. I will check it out.
    n.h.schmidt

  6. #26
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    Office Max sells Green Bar paper in a couple of weights, including the 16lb which is what you will most likely want. I forget exactly how much it was, somethign like $70 per carton, which is a whole bunch, like 2500 continuous sheets or something like that.

    Gear

  7. #27
    Boolit Master 161's Avatar
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    Well I got 10 patches to make it down the barrel. And I was able to account for all 10 rnds. at 50 yards although it was a 6 inch group. I lubed with LLA let dry and sized then lubed again and let dry over night before I loaded.

    How do you guys that use LLA coat your patch? I wet patched the core let it dry over night and tumbled them like a cast. Is that how you do it or do you use your fingers to coat the patch?
    Thanks 161
    "Some times it's just better to smile an walk away."
    -161

    "Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
    -Butch Cassidy & the Sun-dance Kid

  8. #28
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    When I've used LLA, I used the Recluse 45/45/10 formula as described in the sticky in the lube section and did just what you did, tumbled them in it until lightly coated and then let them dry. The great thing about wet-patching is that the jackets can handle quite a bit of "handling" when dry, so they are ideal for tumble-lubing. I've had good results from this method, although I usually prefer to get my lube-sizer good and warm and final size the patched boolit base-first with a light lube pressure to get the paper embedded with lube, plus it helps pack the trimmed tail stub into a nice wad on the boolit base.

    Here are a couple of different boolits, the first is a gas-check boolit wrapped sans check and the latter is a HB mould Goodsteel made as an experiment, the 'knot' of tail packs into the base nicely:


    Gear

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Well I hope that you cleaned all the jacket material out of your bore.

    I reckon it makes a big difference.

    PP to lead seems no troubles for me.

    But the other way around I like to clean it out first as sometimes it can give me the irrits if I have a little lead from a miss lubed bullet.

    I used to tumble my PP.(may go back to it)
    I put a slight smear along a section of greaseproof cooking paper and spread it out with a bit of cardboard /knife what have you.
    Put a small hand-full in the middle and pick it up by the ends.
    Run them up and down like shoe shining but in reverse.Keeping the bullets from rolling out the sides of coarse.

    That tends to give me a light but even coat.
    I don't coat the base.
    Let dry then load.

    I have tried ..smearing with the fingers and all other means.
    But this is pretty quick to do and I have no mess to clean up.

    I only just get a bit of off color on the patch just a light film. not a dripping thick mess.
    I'm not looking to lube them like plain cast.

  10. #30
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    161, one coat of tumble lube is all you need. Try the 45/45/10 next time, you'll like it.

    Gear

  11. #31
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    If you are following jacketed bullets with PP shoot 10 or 12 DRY patched bullets first. It will clean that barrel up near perfect.
    Last edited by pdawg_shooter; 04-05-2012 at 02:15 PM.
    45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Marlin Junky's Avatar
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    Are your patches secure after drying? I mean if you grip the patched boolit by the patch with the thumb and forefinger of one hand, can you turn the boolit by the nose with the thumb and forefinger of the other hand?

    It looks like you've got tall enough lands to cut the patch properly. You said the groove diameter is .308". What's the bore diameter?

    MJ

  13. #33
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    If you do it right it takes a knife to remove the patch.

    Gear

  14. #34
    Boolit Master 161's Avatar
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    The patch is tight after it dries. When I started using LLA I cut groups down to 6 inches at 50 yards with a speed of 2400 FPS. Tonight I went out with 26 rnds. loaded at 1800 FPS and cut the groups down to 2 inches at 50 yards. I've tried short patches ,long patches, trace paper, graph paper, short OAL, long OAL .312 sizing .310 sizing. I cleaned the barrel with copper solvent until completely clean. I don't size before I patch but post size to .310 or .312 is that my problem? My groove depth is .308 bore is .300 or .301.
    Any ideas??
    161
    "Some times it's just better to smile an walk away."
    -161

    "Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
    -Butch Cassidy & the Sun-dance Kid

  15. #35
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    You're discovering why we keep saying to size the core down to about 1.5 thousandths larger than the bore diameter. Been there and done what you're doing, had about the same results.

    Save your pennies and get Buckshot or Lee Precision to make you a push-though sizer, then you can just roll your .30 caliber boolits on a case lube pad and shove them through, then patch back up to .311" or so with 16 lb paper, copy paper, notebook paper, or similar and I'll bet you have far better luck and can shoot them easily to 2600 fps and to the J-bullet accuracy potential of the rifle.

    I use water-based RCBS II case lube for boolit sizing, that way it doesn't need to be cleaned off before wet-patching. Others use various silicone sprays with good results as well, it helps keep the patch from adhering to the boolit.

    Gear

  16. #36
    Boolit Master 161's Avatar
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    Does anybody have a link to buckshot?
    "Some times it's just better to smile an walk away."
    -161

    "Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
    -Butch Cassidy & the Sun-dance Kid

  17. #37
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    Click on the members list in the taskbar at the top of the page, enter "buckshot" in the search menu, when it takes you to his profile page, click on the "send message" button and select private message.

    Gear

  18. #38
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    BTW, Buckshot does darn near perfect work. I used to make my own push through dies from pre- threaded u-bolt stock but not any more. You tell Buckshot what size you want with what alloy and it will be right, first time. With Lee, seems like I always end up having to lap some.
    45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master

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    If you cant find him, I can hook you up too.
    Also, I wanted to mention that I found that a consistent patch length was very important to accuracy as well. I made a tool that allows me to trim the patches perfectly square and to cosistant length within a few thousandths of an inch. Not that its going to shave 6" off your groups, but I did pull it in from 3" to 2" just by being picky about patch length. I can make you one of those too.
    Heres the tool:


    Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    If you unwrap a sized pp bullet and measure with a mike it'll tell you what your core diameter is now.

    By doing that and testing I found that even with my rough home hand made sizing die it halved at least the group size.
    The cores ended up different diameters all up and down the core from wrapping then sizing only.
    Can't be good when you start to spin them fast and not expect them not to go whizzing around in a big circle instead. Althou how consistent it might be.

    Some people can do it.... but then again people can do a lot of things I can't.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check