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Thread: reloadable .32 rimfire brass

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    I will keep looking.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  2. #82
    Boolit Bub tomsp8's Avatar
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    " I wanted to make a comment to those of you who are reading this thread and are interested in shooting an old .32 rimfire. You may look at my posts and think "that's neat, but I don't have a lathe, so I can't make reloadable rimfire cases".

    ndnchf, you've read my mind! Been wishing I had a lathe and more precision tools for the last week! The finished rounds you
    produced are certainly what I'm striving for. I have a few general questions regarding loading heeled bullets in general, but didn't
    want to hijack this thread.
    "One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."

  3. #83
    Boolit Master

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    Tomsp8 - The hardest part of doing this is getting the .32 Long Colt brass to begin with. But with Jack Harrison selling cases converted from .32 S&W Long, that is pretty easily overcome. There is of course the reloadable Dixie brass as well. I don't recall what gun you want to shoot, but so long as it is .32 short or long, either of these will work.

    I believe discussing heeled bullets is within the subject of reloading .32 rimfire brass. Over the last few months a number of us have been discussing loading and shooting .32 long colt with heel bullets over on the CASCITY forum, in "The Powder Room" section. I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to check out that thread. There are a lot of photos and details on how we did things, various bullets, loads and crimping. But also feel free to ask questions here. We all come here to learn and share information.

  4. #84
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    I, like Chev William I believe, have a Stevens Favorite. Mine is a model 1894. I started with the offset modified cases from HC Collections out of France. They sold me the cases with the heeled bullets already seated. Loaded with 3F blackpowder, 9 grains is about all that will go in. Pricey, but was able to prove the rifle was still serviceable. Didn't care for the offset, so thought there had to be a better way. Also, the bullets provided are slightly oversized. Had to "sand" the outside diameter about .003 to chamber. Money is very tight, figured I would do it myself. Just wish I could afford the dies. My procedures and yours are nearly identical. I signed up on the CAS forum last night and am awaiting my confirmation e-mail now. This has been a very informative and timely thread for sure. Don't know if you noticed, but I'm only 2-3 hours away from you, and my dad lives near you over in Locust Grove/Wilderness area in Orange.
    "One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."

  5. #85
    Boolit Master

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    Tomsp8 - I know the Locust Grove area. If you come up I-95 to Rt 3 to go out that way, you are only a mile or so from my house. PM me if you come up this way and want to stop by. Be glad to show you what I'm doing.

    What is the diameter of the HC bullets, both the heel and driving bands? My #4 rolling block needs a .299" heel and thin wall cases to chamber, so I make my cases to fit them. Another fellow sent me some bullets he made from a new mold from Accurate Molds. They are beautiful bullets, but the heel was .304", too big for my rifle. But I put them in the lathe a turned the heels down to .299". I haven't had a chance to shoot them yet, but look forward to trying them.

    Here's a tip that you may like. Lee makes push through bullet sizers in various sizes. I found that a .314" sizer makes makes a dandy resizing die for the . 32 Colt (or rimfire) cases with a simple, minor modification. I measued some factory new .32 Long Colt rounds and they were .315" at the case mouth. The .314" sizer is .001" too small, but.... it is slightly tapered up to the point where it measures .314". So by running a .32 Long Colt case up into it, it will be sized down. But the die is a little too long at the bottom for a .32 Long Colt case mouth to reach the .314"-.315" area. So I removed the bottom 1/4" from the die. Here is the shortened .314" die on the left and another as original on the right.



    Now, I can size the case mouth as I want by simply adjusting the height of the die One note - the dies is very hard and can't be cut with a hack saw. I used a grinder to slowly grind off the unthreaded end portion. I kept a bucket of water close and cooled the die every 10 seconds. After I got it ground where I wanted it, I used a Dremel with a small grindstone to chamfer the opening. The best part is that these dies a very inexpensive. I think Midway has them for around $18. Hope this helps!

  6. #86
    Boolit Bub tomsp8's Avatar
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    Now you're talking my language! Inexpensive, outside the box solution! (As in cheap! lol) Been trying to come up with a cheap way to make a sizing die but nothing was satisfactory with my limited tools!
    I have some 32 short colt cases with the heeled bullets pulled, I graciously got from another board member (who actually is another
    Virginian, Front Royal area). Loaded a couple of the pulled bullets in the few remaining HC cases, while I practice the case mods with the colt short cases. The pulled bullet heels are .299, but the HC cases are .313 outside with .11 case walls, so about .291 or so inside.
    These cases have not been crimped. I chamfered the case mouth, used a Lee universal mouth flare die, seated the bullet using a 9mm
    Luger seating die with round nose seating plug, then used a .308 rifle collet factory crimp die to reclose the bell/flair. To use the crimp die,
    I took a small rod with enough tape wrapped around it to hold the case through the "primer" hole, then lowered the case upside down
    into the die and crimped it closed that way. Seems to work. Bullet feels secure. Cases are barely snug to chamber, very slight thumb pressure, and extractor pulls the unfired cases out with no problem.
    Ultimately will be using the long colt cases, but figured I'd practice the mods with the short cases. Don't want to sacrifice any long cases
    while experimenting if I can help it.
    "One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."

  7. #87
    Boolit Master

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    It sounds like you are on your way with a system that works, that's great.

    The newer brass is generally too thick at the mouth. They should be .008" wall thickness. I had the same problem. To deal with it I ordered a .299" inside neck reamer from Forster for my case trimmer. I size the cases first, then ream to .299".



    To crimp, I had Bernie at Old West Molds make a .32 short/long colt adjustable collet crimp die. He modifies Lee collet crimp dies so they are pretty reasonable.





    I loaded some .32 Short Colt and shot them in my #4 and they were very accurate at short range. For bullets, you can't beat Jack Harrison's Lyman 299153 bullets at $18/per 100. His reformed .32 long colt cases are $18/per 20. Less than $1.00 per case sounds high, but it takes a good bit of work to reform them. I know because I make them the same way for my self. He goes by the name "tenmile" on Gunbroker.

  8. #88
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    Tomsp8,
    Welcome to the group! This is a very friendly and informative group of people who enjoy the older firearms and cartridges. Ndnchf has mentioned Jack Harrison (tenmile) and there are others on both CAS City and Castboolits along with Shooters Forum and Ammoguide Interactive that have passed knowledge on these cartridges and old firearms along.
    Another source of "299153" bullets is "Carolina Cast bullets".
    A Commercial source for "Accurate Mold 311090A" Bullets is coming on line at "Matt's Bullets".
    I am still looking for a commercial source for 67 Grain bullets to fit my .25 Stevens experiments, so far the closest I have found is again, "Carolina Cast Bullets", production of "Ranch Dog .25ACP RFN Cast 51 Grain bullets and various sources of FMJ 50 Grain and 35 grain ones.
    The .25 Stevens shares the Bore/Groove diameters of a .25ACP SAMMI Barrel, but new commercial pistols of 2-1/2" to 3" barrel length seem to be on the high side of SAMMI tolerances plus being way too short fo ruse as a rifle. I did find a Barrel Blank at "Lothar Walther" that is the right bore/groove diameters for a .25 Stevens new barrel and is long enouh, at 23.4" length, to make a proper Rifle barrel out of.
    "Track of the Wolf" does list a liner in .25 Caliber, but I believe it is .250"Bore/.257" Groove, not the .243"Bore/.250" Groove needed for .25 Stevens or .25ACP.
    The .32 Long Colt seems to use Bore/Groove dimensions smaller than the .32 S&W Long or similar and closer to the .308/.30-06/.30 Carbine Calibers Bore/Groove dimensions.
    My own 'collection' of Stevens Barrels Slug in the .30 range and so are 'tight' in relationship to .32 S&W Typical dimensions. My .25 Stevens Barrels all slug to nominal .251" to .252" Groove diameters. with Bores in the range of .244" to .246".

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  9. #89
    Boolit Bub tomsp8's Avatar
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    I've seen that modified shell holder from Old West Molds. Just no funds for it at this time. That's why I was going down through the top
    of the collet die. I happen to have one for .308 already and seems just about right.
    I also have seen the bullets and cases on Gunbroker from that gentleman. I am definately gonna buy the bullets at least, but might have lucked into some actual vintage long colt cases in the next day or so cheaper .......
    Now I see how you reamed the neck from your earlier description. Not much of a rifle guy, so no experience with that, but certainly makes
    sense. Of course, my "ghetto" way was to spin the case with some 320 paper around the neck area to reduce it from the outside. Since I
    don't have a way to size bullets right now, I used that same method to "size down" the bullets as well. The ones I got from
    HC Collections were about .316/.317, too large for my chamber. .313 seems about right for this rifle.
    I think I will be fine once I have a stash of identical bullets, and matching cases, to use as a fixed basis. Right now I'm loading some
    pulled bullets from 32 shorts. I got the bullets and cases for free via a trade. They are the correct .313, with a heel of .299, but the heels are slightly deformed from being pulled from the factory cases that were crimped. My other quandry is preparing the case necks properly on those unfired 32 short cases with the crimp, without overworking them. But I have an idea I will try that just might work.....
    Of course, purchasing those already made cases on Gunbroker would eliminate half of what I'm struggling with right now
    I'm certain! But struggling and overcoming has it's rewards sometimes!
    "One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."

  10. #90
    Boolit Master

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    There is nothing wrong with crimping in your .308 die. If it works - great. If you can get original .32 LC cases, that is the best way to go. I had 50 rounds before and just bought another 100 off gunbroker last week. Plus 40 some odd I made from .32 S&W long. I've got about 100 shorts also, but I don't use them now. Your way of thinning the necks will get the job done, just a bit slow. Glad to see your creative thinking - its a good trait when doing this kind of work.

    I don't recall if you stated your bore/groove size (sorry, but I'm working from a Blackberry and its tough to jump back to read earlier posts). But you can of course use that .314" push through sizer for bullets as well as case sizing. The next smaller sizer that Lee makes is .309". My #4 rifle's groove size is .308", so I got a .309" sizer also. If needed, you could open up a .309" sizer with 600 grit paper on a split dowel to a larger size.

    For your case mouths, a 19/64" drill bit is .297". The drill bit shank makes a pretty good mandrel. Slip the shank into the case and then roll the case across a smooth hard surface, pressing down on the bit shank. It will do a pretty good job of ironing out any wrinkles in the case mouth. I did this before I made a .299" expander plug. Hope this helps!

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
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    Ndnchf and Tomsp8,
    I cut the bottom of a Lee Push thru Sizer die in a lathe with a replaceable carbide insert cutting tool at my Friends shop. then 'polished the remaining 'forcing cone to sizing bore junction with a Dremel abrasive polishing tool. This was on a .329" diameter one that I wanted to use as an intermediate sizing die for .32 Cases. I only cut it down enough that the case rim OD just touches the forcing cone when the base is flush with the bottom of the die.

    Now that Lee is accepting Custom orders again, it would be possible to order a .315" or even a .316" Lube and Size Kit fairly cheaply.
    Also, I have a .32 Long colt (steel) Hollywood sizing die body that I ground the mouth 'bevel out enough to 'gather' the partial sized .32 S&W case into alignment to force it into the die without bending. This is now part of my case forming kit if I cannot buy more .32 Long Colt cases.

    I still do not have the neck reaming items but I hope I will be able to get them soon after I get my 1894 Action(s) back in upgraded condition from my Gunsmith.

    "Matt's Bullets" has sent me a package of samples he has cast with my "Accurate Mold 311090A" mold and some are lubed using a 'push through' lube system and others are lubed using a 'Lyman' tool.
    The as cast unlubed samples measure .302" heel Diameter, about .310" driving band diameter, about .296" just forward of the driving band, .515" overall length, .195" heel length and nose length, and about .125 long driving band.
    The 'push through' lubed ones have the heel lube groove filled with a thin coating on the heel lands and a ring of lube on the nose just forward of the driving band.
    The 'Lyman Tool' lubed ones have lube filling the heel lube groove and lightly coating the heel lands but no lube on the nose.
    From my prospective either is usable for my cartridges in my rifles but the 'Lyman' lube would allow 'cleaner' storage of the completed cartridges. Something like the difference in storage between .30 Carbine and .22 LR cartridges.
    Ndnchf, you have used Outside Lubed and Inside lubed bullets in your shooting, which di you think is better under storage conditions?
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  12. #92
    Boolit Mold
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    Hey Chev. William,
    Track Of The Wolf does have the correct barrel liner for .25acp.
    I have one on the way for my .25acp rifle project.
    Later,
    Dave

  13. #93
    Boolit Master
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    Broken arrow,
    I may have missed that lisating and will revisit "Track of the Wolf" again and look for it.

    I do have a Stevens barrel marked .22 Long Rifle that has very thin rifling left in it, If it does not shoot accurately, I may have it relined to get it shooting better. But that will need to wait until I have an action back to try it with. The outside of this barrel is covered with 'cruddy brown patina' so I will need to clean and possibly refinish it for use.

    I have two 'old' computers that I use for internet, the one I am suing today is the 'newer' of the two and has limited storage space on it. the older older one stopped 'booting up' over the weekend, but it has the storage space to allow me to 'manipulate' digital photos to attach to emails, so I will need to get running again, it dates from 2001 and is an HP unit.

    This month is an expensive one for me as two different Insurance policies need renewing, my second property Tax payment is due, and there is a set of Utility and Telephone/internet/cable TV bills to pay, so computer repairs are not high on my list of projects at the moment. My 'Retirement payments' are not going up as fast as the taxes or utility bills so something has to be delayed, and my dogs get food even if I do not.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  14. #94
    Boolit Master

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    FWIW - I put all the photos I post on photobucket and just link them here. Its easy to do and once posted to photobucket, they can be deleted from your hard drive if needed. If you want them on a computer later on, they can be downloaded back to your PC at a later date. Photobucket is free too.

  15. #95
    Boolit Master
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    For crimping you might look at coax cable crimp pliers. Might want to do a little modification to get the diameter right (the ones I have look real close) and maybe give them an angle. There are cheap ones and expensive ones but it looks like the cheap ones could do the job.

    Tim

  16. #96
    Boolit Master

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    I tried using wire crimpers early on. I ground one of the openings close to size. But it pinched the case leaving high spots that prevented the cases from chambering. Old West Molds modifed crimp die works perfectly and is adjustable for both .32 short and long Colt cartridges. My .32 extra long cases are exactly .375" longer than .32 long colt or .32 long rimifre brass. I made a .375" tall bushing to slip over the extended shell holder. This allows it to work with my .32 extra long cases too! Worth every penny in my book.

  17. #97
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    ndnchf,
    Nice work on your .32 rimfire! Neat! Historically speaking the .32 Extra Long used a heavier bullet than the .32 Long.......



    w30wcf
    aka w44wcf
    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
    NRA Life Member
    .22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian

  18. #98
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks John! That's what I get for believing CoTW...

  19. #99
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
    Thanks John! That's what I get for believing CoTW...
    2nd Edition Ammo Encyclopedia also said 90 Grain for the .32 Extra Long, I wonder why the difference between these two references and the catalog data?
    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  20. #100
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    I did some further checking (something I should have done in the first place).
    There were different loadings for the .32 Extra Long cartridge.....hmmmm......

    .32 Extra Long Rimfire
    Winchester - 105 gr bullet / 20 grs. b.p. (after 1907) pre 1907 - 90 gr. bullet / 20 grs. b.p.
    U.M.C. ......- 90 gr bullet / 18 grs. b.p.

    .32 Extra Long Centerfire
    Winchester - 105 gr bullet / 20 grs. b.p.

    .32 Extra Long Ballard Centerfire
    U.M.C. - 105 gr bullet / 18 grs. b.p.

    w30wcf
    Last edited by w30wcf; 01-14-2014 at 09:10 AM.
    aka w44wcf
    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
    NRA Life Member
    .22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check