weighing vs dropping powder

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I have read over the years about the advantages/disadvantages of weighing powder charges versus dropping them from a powder measure. some will tell you only an exact weight of powder will be accurate, while others will tell you it's the "volume" of a given powder that will be the most accurate (I.E. Lee's CC measures). Obviously I'm referring to rifle loads here, as I think most people "drop" their handgun charges.

Not being sure which method is best, here's my solution. It's quick and easy, especially if loading more than 20 rounds. For example, when I load 223 rem for use in my RRa Ar-15 this is the method I use as I usually load 100rds at a time.

My chosen load for 223 rem, with 55gr FMJ BT bullets, is 26grs of IMR-4895. So, I set my Lyman 55 measure (actually i have a few and keep one set just for this powder/weight) to drop 26grs of 4895. When loading, I simply drop a charge of powder into my scale pan (volume) and set it on my RCBS electronic scale (weight). If it is between 25.9grs & 26.1grs, (which I feel is an acceptable variation in this charge weight) I charge a case with it, if not I discard the charge and drop another one. This way, I feel I cover both bases, volume and weight. I have even done this with a balance scale (before I bought an electronic scale) by simply figuring out how "high or low" the pointer had to point to indicate a charge outside acceptable parameters.

This seems to work well for me, and is quick on larger lots of ammo. For 20 rounds or less, I still just weigh each charge. Although I am leaning towards using this technique with all ammo, based on results I am getting.

So, how do you drop or weigh your charges??

SSB

[pumpguy]

I don't drop charges anymore. My Hornady powder measure failed me a couple of months ago. I was loading 357 mags with 158gr swcs and 7 gr of Unique. I got lazy and did not check my charges and managed to load 11 gr in about 100 of them. Fortunately, the GP100 held up, but, it was quite eye opening. Went out and bought a Lyman 1200 dps and even though it takes longer, that is the only way I charge cases now.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I drop all my charges ever snce I learned nearly fifty years ago that benchresters drop all theirs, too. I'm sure it would take more than weighed charges for my sporters and milsurps to beat those guys! Of course I check the measure against my trusty RCBS scale, before, after, and during if it is a large lot. I check all single stage loaded cartridges in the block with a flashlight, to avoid double charges. All check weighing charges go back into the measure, NEVER into a case since the time I double loaded a case, but the flashlight check saved the day. The only exception is pistol ammo loaded on my Dillon Square Deal. It is auto index, so I have to trust it, or give up progressives!

[Ranch Dog]

I don't drop charges anymore. My Hornady powder measure failed me a couple of months ago.

That is one of the good things about using a "volume" charge rather than a weight charge. With a measurer like the Lee Auto-Disk dumping the charge from a volume cavity, there is no way to get an extra amount of powder delivered. Nothing to get out of whack. I use the fixed cavity Lee measurer's for all my pistol cartridges and do not weigh them.

I use "volume" for all of my rifle reloading but it is referenced to a specific charge weight. I use the Lee Perfect Powder Measure to deliver a known volume of powder and verify that volume of powder against a known weight. I drop the charge from the PPM into the pan of my Lee Safety Scale and weigh it. I have the scale marked with a high and low range (1/10th grain) and if it's between those marks, it's good to go. Most of the time it is right on the money.

When I get a new lot of powder, I throw some sample charges based on a low and high CC setting to establish the lot's Volume Density Measurement and Specific Gravity. I enter that information on an Excel spreadsheet. From that, I use a load development spreadsheet that accesses the powder tables as a data base.

It sounds complex but takes minutes to record the powder information and then for any future loading all the information pops up on the load worksheets. Here are some screen shots of the powder tables and then a load worksheet.

With my load development complete for a boolit and powder, I start use volume only. For rifle cartridges under 2.30" in length, I will be dumping the powder with the Lee Pro Auto-Disk. It depends on the charge, some will use the single and others the double disk. One of the disks is going to be the adjustable charge bar so that I get the exact density I need. For my rifle cartridges over 2.30" in length, I'm going to charge them with the PPM.

If any of these rifle charges are a max load, and most that I work into aren't, I will drop them just like I do in load development. From the PPM to the pan of the SS, a quick check of the weight, and then dropped into the case.

[jerrold]

As stated above group benchrest shooters use drop charges almost exclusively, but bear in mind the powder is suited for consistant volume and the measures are top of the line. A inexpensive one will set you back about $200. The RCBS et.all are not in the same league as Harrells. VW verses Lincoln
life is short

jerrold

[brimic]

I drop 10 charges into a pan and weigh them all at once. If the average comes out within a few tenths of the desired charge I go with it. I rarely weigh charges otherwise. People get caught up in weight charges too much- a tenth or two of a grain of powder in a 30-06 sized case will not make a lick of difference.

Besides I don't have the time or patience to weigh every charge and won't spend hundreds of dollars on one of the scales that automatically weigh out charges, nor would I have the patience or time to use one.

[Lloyd Smale]

I drop all my charges. If a powder doesnt meter i dont use it. Only exception is for bolt rifles and extruded powders. Ive got a pact dispensor for those.

[mike in co]

well since i hang with current BENCHREST shooters.....there is a change in process!

throwing charges in br is/was done cause they reload the same small number of cases through out a match. beam scales dont work well in the open. what works( as was pointed out above) is that if a powder will throw consitantly thru a given measure then i have the POTENTIAL to shoot consistant.
not all powder meter well, not all powder measures are equal.

8208 powder measures so consistant that( in my opinion) its favor in br is more a results of its metering consistancy producing consistant rounds, than its burn rate.
n133 meters well but not as well as 8208......guess what people think 8208 is better than n133......hmmmmm

n140 wont meter worth crap in a harrels. too long of a grain. same with 4198 used in 30br, but the 30br round is considered easier to tune......not as sensitive to small changes( like the variation in your dropped charge from your expesive measure). hmmmmmmmm

a trend in some of the top shooters is electronic scales and dispensers !
very quick very accurate if a consistant power supply is used.

and some shooters.....load at home not at the range. this is possible in that 30 cal br rounds seem to shoot well over various conditions which cause 6ppc shooters to loose thier "tune" and have to adjust thier "clicks"( opening or closing the measures adjustment...there are detents...clicks as it is opened or closed).

if you move away from benchrest, common commercial powders are packaged based on volume! if you ever check two lots of your favorite powder, you will find one lot reguires more "weight" than the other to get the same velocity as old lot. now if you go back to your powder measure you will most likely find that the old setting is the same as the new! the weight will vary to get the same velocity, but the volume remains the same!.........
lots of powder are "tuned" to get the same results( its a relatively narrow band) the results is different density with the same "power".
lots of powder like 2230c are cases where a known commercial powder could not be "tuned" into spec but was still a safe powder...just not the original powder.
2230c is safe with 2230 data cause it is less "powerful" than original 2230.

next.......
( yep all the books are written in weight.......thus the batch of powder must not vary too much from the original(control lot) to keep it safe...but safe does not mean lot to lot weight is the same as lot to lot performance/accuracy.)

[lar45]

I load on a Dillon RL-550B for handguns and rifles.
My 30-06 loads with Rem 165 corelokts will group under 1" in everything I've tried them in. That probably won't win any benchrest matches, but consistent sub MOA isn't anything to sneeze at either.
I do stop every 20-40 rounds and double check the thrown powder on a scale.
If you are loading max loads, then it might be prudent to weigh each load.

[Dale53]

>>>The RCBS et.all are not in the same league as Harrells<<<

I have examples of about all of the major brand powder measures. That includes Harrell, RCBS, Lyman, Redding, Dillon, and Lee.

Everyone of them will do a good job regarding accuracy if you will take the time to learn to use them. My favorite value leader is the Redding BR for rifles. Does as good a job as any and cost considerably less than the Harrell. The micrometer is repeatable (always check weigh with a good scale from time to time). I use Lee Pro Disc measures for nearly all of my pistol loads (also use Dillon for some).

The most difference in powder measures is the convenience or lack thereof, of setting for "new" charges. A micrometer that is repeatable, is a REALLY big help. There is no doubt the the Harrell is the prettiest measure out there and I enjoy it when using my Schuetzen rifle. However, if I were forced to admit it, the Redding is just as good...

I do NOT weigh powder charges. After I hung around the centerfire benchrest crowd for awhile, I have had little interest in weighing powder charges.

Dale53

[Newtire]

Everyone of them will do a good job regarding accuracy if you will take the time to learn to use them. I use Lee Pro Disc measures for nearly all of my pistol loads (also use Dillon for some).
Dale53

I have an old Redding measure that is nice to look at anymore as I use either the Lee Pro auto disc or the Lee "Perfect" measures. For years, I used the Lee dippers.

Only thing I found using the Lee measures is that with the "Perfect" keep enough tension on the hopper screw so it don't rotate & shut off your powder supply & watch the brass hopper retaining nuts on the Auto-disc. If these come loose, the charges will increase if you are not paying attention.

If you try to duplicate loads using a scale, things will vary from time to time if the moisture content of the powder changes for instance.

If you get very consistent results with whatever measure you use, I would stick with that and watch for those double charges or no charges etc. etc.

If anyone knows a measure that will work with 4759, let me know!

[4060MAY]

Belding and Mull works very well with 4759

[joeb33050]

As stated above group benchrest shooters use drop charges almost exclusively, but bear in mind the powder is suited for consistant volume and the measures are top of the line. A inexpensive one will set you back about $200. The RCBS et.all are not in the same league as Harrells. VW verses Lincoln
life is short

jerrold

In the extensive powder measure test I did not find that the Harrel measure was any more repeatable than several other measures. Also found that no measure would repeat well with the stick powders, any measure would repeat well with ball and IMR 4227. No measure repeated well with Unique. Harrel measures look good, have nice micrometers, but Redding and others do too. Belding & Mull is the only "different" principle measure I found, and it's micrometer charge tube is as accurately repeatable as the Harrel.
joe b.

[JSH]

Ditto on the Belding & Mull with the SR4759. I have tried about several that is the only one I have found that worked to my satisfaction.
I did talk with a fellow shooter on that last summer and he said that the Forster measure worked well with the stick powders.
I have a lot of problems with 4198, even in the BM measure.
Jeff

[Newtire]

Ditto on the Belding & Mull with the SR4759. I have tried about several that is the only one I have found that worked to my satisfaction.
I did talk with a fellow shooter on that last summer and he said that the Forster measure worked well with the stick powders.
I have a lot of problems with 4198, even in the BM measure.
Jeff

Thanks guys on the heads-up for Belding & Mull & forster. I have trouble nostly with the stick powders in that they bridge closed & then drop 2-charges! Great for "long range" loads eh?

[jerrold]

In the extensive powder measure test I did not find that the Harrel measure was any more repeatable than several other measures. Also found that no measure would repeat well with the stick powders, any measure would repeat well with ball and IMR 4227. No measure repeated well with Unique. Harrel measures look good, have nice micrometers, but Redding and others do too. Belding & Mull is the only "different" principle measure I found, and it's micrometer charge tube is as accurately repeatable as the Harrel.
joe b.

I once drove a VW from Texas to Virginia. I have driven a Lincoln to Texas from Virginia. I stand by my comparison of Harrell and RCBS et.all

life is short
jerrold

[montana_charlie]

I once drove a VW from Texas to Virginia.

I drove a Toyota Land Cruiser from Montana to Mississippi...and back...twice. A VW would have seemed like a luxury car.

And, oh yeah...I still drop underweight charges and trickle them up to weight.

Hard assed and hard headed, I guess...
CM

[3sixbits]

I do not own a Lee measure, never have, but all the others mention I currently own. I've shot in benchrest comp for many years and the only measure that gets any use when I load slow is my Harrel measure. It is so far ahead of all the others I own, that there is no comparison. I use this measure for 4350, 4831 all the powders everyone says they hate. I think the big difference with the Harrel is that it is the easiest to learn the rhythm with. If you can't develop a rhythm you won't have much luck with a measure. I do use a scale to start with to set the measure. I load a lot of big stuff .375 H&H, .375 Ultra .375 Wby. etc. I have not had the problems Herrel says some people complain about with his ( there) measures. One big reason is that I know the factories all use volume loads not weighed to charge. What this means is I except variations in weight of 3/10 grains, I know it makes no difference on the paper out to 300 yards. Going beyond that range for long range bench and you better get back on the scales.

[lurch]

I don't shoot any kind of competition, just for the fun of it. I weight the extruded stick types - every charge - since I only use those for rifle and don't shoot too much of those. Ball powders I throw with a measure unless I'm working up a load, or loading for my really nice 223 Sako, then I weigh those too.

For handgun, I just throw them and check once in a while, even with the flakes. Yeah, they vary some but I'm hard pressed to tell the difference and weighing that many would certainly be no fun.

[Hip's Ax]

Volume is convenient to measure, weight a little less so. We use these methods because they are easy to do with easily available tools but what actually matters is available surface area, not an easy thing to measure. If two charges have identical weight and surface area then these two charges should produce identical muzzle velocities, all other things being equal.

BTW, I quit weighing charges years ago after I found out that none of the other XTC high power guys were doing it. Only some of the 1000 yard shooters still weigh. They also go to some other extraordinary lengths to make their ammo shoot as consistently as possible. IE: Weighing bullets, weighing brass both empty and full of water, weighing loaded rounds.