Reloading EverythingWidenersLoad DataRepackbox
Lee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2Inline Fabrication
Titan Reloading
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: GC Bullets shot w/o Gas Checks

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    AZ Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    542

    GC Bullets shot w/o Gas Checks

    Anyone have experience shooting cast bullets from a gas check design mold, without the gas check. I am talking about velocities in the 900 fps range from a .44 spl.

    The pistol is still at the gunsmith's getting converted from a .357 to .44sp., and I was in hopes that somone could give me a preview as to whether this is worth trying.

    Thanks in advance for the help.
    NRA Endowment Life Member

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Scrounger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Area 51
    Posts
    3,482
    Definitely worth trying. You may well decide you 'don't need no steenkin gas checks' after all. I have shot several GC bullets 'bare bottomed' (here comes CarpetMan) and they worked fine. And that was at about 1400 fps.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    fecmech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Buffalo NY area
    Posts
    4,030
    I have very limited experience in this area but I tried it with the rcbs .358 180gr silhouette bullet. A friend gave me the mould and I don't have any gas checks so I tried a couple loads without them to see if I would keep the mould. I loaded a close to max load with 296 and another with AA9 and shot them out of my Rossi single shot rifle and my ruger gp100 pistol. IIRC the rifle shot them into about 2" @ 50yds and the pistol 3"-4" @50 yds. I kept the mould but haven't done anything with it since then. I see no reason why it would not work in a .44 given a good throat fit and a fairly soft alloy. Well worth a try imo. Nick

  4. #4
    On Heaven's Range

    BruceB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    nevada
    Posts
    3,537
    We've fired many, many thousands of 358156 and 429244 boolits without their gaschecks, all in revolvers, and at full-magnum-power levels. I killed a big Arctic wolf at forty yards with one round of 358156, unchecked, from a 6" .38 Special but at 1300 fps, and my wife killed a bull moose from 65 yards with two rounds of 429244 (non-gaschecked) from a Super Blackhawk...loaded to 1400-plus fps.

    Accuracy was good enough that we held our own in formal IHMSA silhouette competition, too, without the gaschecks.

    Having said all that, I now use the RCBS 150 SWC when I don't feel the need of gaschecks, and the RCBS 44-250KT gets the nod for similar situations in the .44s. These are both plain-base designs, of course. I still keep those GC mould designs really handy, though.

    There MAY be a tendency to increased leading in some handguns if these types are shot without checks, but I can't really say yea or nay on that subject. Certainly it wasn't a problem in our revolvers. I did a limited test of one .30-caliber rifle bullet without its gaschecks, and where it grouped under 2" WITH gaschecks at 100 yards, it spread well over a foot at the same distance WITHOUT the checks, same load, same day. I can take a hint!
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  5. #5
    In Remembrance

    NVcurmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pleasant Valley, NV, 400 yd. N of Galena Creek
    Posts
    2,707
    RCBS 400 gr. GC shot vey well with or without check in a Marlin 1895 for me at 1100-1200 fps.
    Eagles have talons, buzzards don't. The Second Amendment empowers us to be eagles. curmudgeon

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Perryville, Ky,USA
    Posts
    4,513
    In my whisper load tests, I had good results with GC bullets without the checks as long as I used a dacron filler.

    When I have a GC design peeestol bullet, I remove the check shank and drive on.

    Shuz has a 429215HP PB that we modified right now and he's wearin' it out in that Mounteeen pistol S & W./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  7. #7
    Boolit Man Magnum Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    79

    Thumbs up

    I was shooting my MM 41 305 grainers without checks for quite sometime. Velocities ran in the 1300 fps range outta my 10" contender 41magnum and they worked great...
    mike

    NRA Life Member

    Specialty Pistols Bulletin Board - http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/eve

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Spokane, Wa.
    Posts
    2,636

    shooting gc designed boolits sans checks

    A "rule of thumb" that works most of the time in my experience is this: if the boolit is designed for a gas check, I use one. I have successfully shot good groups outta .44 mag revolvers without major leading using gas checked designs, sans checks. But, I can't seem to corrolate whether it is the boolit design, the hardness of that particular alloy, powder type and amount, the size of the boolit or the lube used! Sometimes they work,but most of the time I either get poor groups or major leading. Once a gas check is installed, that same design will usually always shoot better and with minimal leading. That being said, in my experience, plain based boolits shoot just as well in the .44 mag as gas checked boolits, and as Beagle has indicated, often machining the gas check shank out of a mould gives good results. However, I have experienced some leading with boolits that have had the gas check shank removed. My thought is; and I may be alone in this thinking, is that some boolits may not hold enuf lube after the gas check shank has been removed.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    US, Wash, PA
    Posts
    4,925
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuz
    A "rule of thumb" that works most of the time in my experience is this: if the boolit is designed for a gas check, I use one.

    But, I can't seem to corrolate whether it is the boolit design, the hardness of that particular alloy, powder type and amount, the size of the boolit or the lube used!

    My thought is; and I may be alone in this thinking, is that some boolits may not hold enuf lube after the gas check shank has been removed.

    Shuz,

    The two rules for stabilized flight that are broken because of leaving off the GC are that you (1) greatly reduce bearing area length and (2) you change the bullet balance.

    These are really one in the same because now a larger percentage of the bullets length is unsupported nose weight. That's why a GC helps out. Or why removing the check space and replacing it with lead works. It simply restores the bearing area and balance which makes it easier to stabilize.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    AZ Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    542
    Thanks for the input Gents. I really appreciate your taking the time to share your experiences
    NRA Endowment Life Member

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    8,099
    Bass,

    Just machining of filing off the gascheck shank proves your theory on loss of bearing surface wrong.

    Joe

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    US, Wash, PA
    Posts
    4,925
    Quote Originally Posted by StarMetal
    Bass,

    Just machining of filing off the gascheck shank proves your theory on loss of bearing surface wrong.

    Joe
    Joe,

    Well .... yes if you do it by milling off the top of the blocks. I am talking about opening up the cavities. So the bullet is the same length just that the check space is now lead. You can just go the depth of the check so that you keep the old GC groove for lube.

    Never considered that folks might do it the other way.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy Rrusse11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    248
    Gents,
    I've been very pleasantly surprised at how well the Lee C309-113-F has been shooting in two 32-20's, an 1873Win and an 1889 Marlin, without a check. A quick shot of Alox, unsized(dropping around.313"), air cooled, and with the 6cav Lee mould it's ez to stack up a bunch. I need the Lee .314sizer/check die and try them to see if they get better with a check.. My alloy these days is 22RF scrap from the indoor pistol range at the club mixed 2:1 with Midway's linotype.
    Over 4.8gr of Blue Dot and a Fed 100 small pistol primer it's grouping 2" for 10 shots ~50yds,,,,,well the woodpile is around that from the picnic table. This with open sights, the 28" Win gets around 1060fps, and the Marlin more like 1000. No signs of leading, and wonderfully pleasant to shoot. The different rifles though have very different throats, though the chambers are very close to each other. COAL is critical for accuracy with the Marlin, and needs longer than spec, while the Win is decidedly short throated and just engraves at 1.575".
    I'll get the check die and push the velocity a bit. I reckin I'll get better accuracy, but as a plinker,,,, it's doin' just fine at the moment.
    Cheers,
    R*2
    Last edited by Rrusse11; 06-30-2005 at 12:04 PM.
    A population of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    south western pennsylvina
    Posts
    3,412

    no gas checks

    i posted a thread on shooting the custom lee 180 grgc without the gas checks in a marlin 357 mag ck it out

  15. #15
    Generous Donator
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    251
    Pete, I regularly shoot gas check type boolits without the gas checks in my revolvers at velocities ranging from 900 fps to 1250 fps. They always perform well; I’ve never had any problems of any kind. Jim

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Rrusse11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    248

    32-20 Range Report

    Gents,
    Bumping the powder charge to 5.3gr of Blue Dot has got the load out of the 'grey zone' of Mach 1, dunno what it's clocking now, but should be in the neighborhood of 1200fps. Accuracy has improved, and yesterday at the picnic table was an exercise in picking off bits of claybird that were getting too small to see at 45yds. Getting the set trigger working was another revelation, and the 28" octagon barrel is shooting better and better as cleaning and shooting polishes up a neglected bore.
    Dunno if the checkless base is acting as a boattail, or if it's balancing the nose??? Certainly shoots! Got the pot on now to cast another run.
    Cheers,
    R*2
    A population of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check