First And Last Equipment

[runfiverun]

the 40 lb pot from magma is the one to go with.
buy the bottom pieces, you can easily change it to a ladle pour,a single spout or a double spout.
it holds it's heat well. [don't change temps if you add 2-3 lbs of alloy]
holds enough alloy for a good single pot run if you want to do it that way.
is consistent in alloy spout pressure.
don't hardly ever drip.
heats up quickly,and has a dial that is settable for a pretty accurate temp indicator.
finding molds is pretty easy.
just look at mihec, noe, rcbs,accurate,and mountain molds and a couple of others i am forgetting.
and don't overlook a lee 6 cavity mold for production.
a star is great for revolver stuff and is fast.
i use mine for everything, including putting on gas checks and rifle stuff [it's not any faster at doing this though]

[scrapcan]

And if you have an idea of what you want, put a want to buy thread up. It may surprise you what can be had right here from members or our sponsors, thanks to those who have come forward in this thread.

good point mentioned above for casting machines mentioned using single or double cavity moulds. that is something to consider for the future. Lee single and doubles will likely not work out so well for conversion to machine use.

Don't leave Saeco moulds out of the mix. They are great moulds also. Get the handles you need when you buy the mould or you will get to stare at the mould a few more days.

One thing to note is that the lee 6 cavity moulds are heads and shoulders above their single and 2 cavity moulds. The six cavity moulds also do not come with handles so make sure you buy handles.

Handles can be switched between moulds if you have compatible moulds.

As to a pot I think you should start with a good quality electric pot. You then have options on where to set up, may not have those options with one that burns it's fuel to make heat.

when you find out what size of push thru sizer you need Buckshot can make you a great one. If you buy a star lathesmith will make sizer dies for those. Both are members here.

as a side note the 5x4 was terrible but the triple stick contraption we had in a truck under a manure spreader box was way worse. And I like power steering also! Nothing like a little guy swinging on the ferris wheel meant to turn that long hooded beast with.

[canyon-ghost]

I applaud your decision to buy the new Lyman book, still need that one myself! That's a great idea, get the roadmap first.

[btroj]

Jammer, have you ever cast a bullet? Just wondering?
If not, the best equipment in the world is a knowledgable caster in your area who can show you the ropes. Let you try his set up, cast some bullets, size them, etc.
Hands on learning is the best way to learn. It also let's you see what you do and don't like first hand.

[Bullwolf]

I have ladle cast bullets from a cast iron pot warmed over the kitchen stove, used an electric hotplate, a wood fire, and even a Coleman camp stove.

Another interesting option that I rarely see mentioned here is the use of a hand held fishing jig casting pot to cast bullets with, like the Palmer Lead Melting Hot Pot 2. An improved version of the traditional "electric ladle".



They aren't really all that expensive, (around $35 or so) and they can be pretty easy to use. The only drawback I have found when using one, is that it is smaller than using a large scale casting furnace. They only hold around 4lbs of melted lead.

Using one is very similar to ladle casting, only your ladle is now an electric, hand held sized pourable melting pot.

I picked up one many years ago at a local sporting goods store, and I was really surprised at just how convenient the thing is to use. I use it far more often than I ever thought I would to cast boolits with.

I prefer a larger bottom pour pot for sheer volume of boolits cast, but if I am only going to make a few 100 smaller weight boolits, I often use the little Palmer lead melting pot instead, to cast with. I find myself making smaller sized ingots now to alloy with, and for use in the hand held pot.

It's another handy tool to consider.


- Bullwolf

[dbarnhart]

I'm a relatively new caster but I'm going to jump in here because there is a point that several have alluded to:

Casting is not just science. There is a large measure of art and 'craft' involved. Did you ever make bread or pasta? You work the dough with your hands until it has the right feel. Nobody can tell you the exact proportions of flour and water it takes to achieve that feel because it varies with temperature humidity and a bunch of other factors.

Bullet casting is no different. My opinion is that you should start out simple so that there are as few variables as possible, and develop the 'feel'. Without that 'feel', I fear that one would find a Master Caster or similar to be tremendously frustrating.

[Jammer Six]

Nope, I've never cast. I came to this website because I was interested in swaging, not casting, but watching the site over time has changed my mind.

The posts that convinced me to start simple were posts 41 and 43, with the comments about watching lead change from solid to liquid, and recognizing dangers. I now see value in putting lead in a pot, (any pot) setting it on a heat source (any source) and watching it melt.

[btroj]

Over time you will learn that even cheap equipment can make great bulelts. Better equipment may make it easier or more pleasurable but it isn't required to get a good product. In the end it is the user that matters the most.

You are a professional carpenter it seems. I can buy all the tools and spend a ton of money but it doesn't mean I can build a high end home. It is the users the tool that matters.

[Jammer Six]

It's much easier to teach a brand new apprentice on a large, powerful, cast iron cabinet saw than on a plastic Skil "table" saw from Homeless Despot.

It's much easier to learn when you've eliminated all the potential problems that you can, and isolated the skill you're trying to learn.

[palmettosunshine]

I learned (am still learning) on a single propane burner (small bottle) with a homemade box around it to support my Wal-Mart cast iron skillet as I ladle cast with my Lee 2 cavity molds. I tumble lube with Lee liquid Alox (LLA) and don't have any problems. I've never sized a boolit or slugged a barrel yet don't have any problems with accuracy or leading in .380, 9mm or .44 special. Now in all fairness, I haven't shot my 44 yet.

[D Crockett]

Jammer six you have a pm D Crockett

[Buckshot]

Okay, step one.

I slugged the barrel of the first weapon I will cast for. With my cheap calipers, the largest measurement was .4515, but I don't believe the last decimal place, I don't believe these calipers are that accurate. So I'd say the barrel is between .451 and .452. There were places on the slug that measured .450, and even some that went down to .449, but the large measurement is the one that matters, isn't it?

If I understand everything correctly, a .452 mould is what I want.

.............Well, in a word yes you'd LIKE to have a mould dropping slugs at .452". Let me say that depending upon your alloy, alloy temp, block temps, pouring method, etc, you may or may NOT get .452". If you need .452" you might get .453" which may not be a bad thing. Remember, sizing is a step that 'may' not have to be done. You might find your pistol will shoot more accurately with slugs at .453" (or .4526, .4523, or whatever) then actually sized to .452". Don't think that you HAVE to size. Lubing IS a requirement, while sizing is not.

As I mentioned in my first post, you may simply be able to use Lee LA. I will also add that some don't care for it. It does have the negative of building up in the nose punch of your seater die, and it does cover the entire boolit, base, nose AND the sides! Cheap to try, simple to stop

Back to the 'As Cast' diameter, it is possible that a .453" slug will yeild better accuracy then the .452". However you have to determine that the case loaded with a .453" slug will still easily chamber, and more importantly have enough room left in the chamber to expand to release the boolit at ignition. Lots of guys shooting 30 cals for instance will size their slugs to say, .310" even though the groove might be .308". Or even size to .311"/.312". It's usually an effort to fill the throat.

Anyway, there are variables and details that will come along, and they're all part of the learning process. Many have mentioned that some things are set in stone, and there is solid science involved, but at the same time there is a lot of art and technique too, and these only become evident in the 'Doing', and by others who've been there and done it, and have the tattered smelly old T shirt to prove it.

.................Buckshot

[Jammer Six]

Alright, going down the list of high end mould makers, the only one that I can actually order the mould I want and have it made is Baliti-cast, right?

The others all appear to have some kind of list-wait-group-buy-when-the-music-comes-around-again-on-the-guitar kind of thing going.

And Mountain Molds wants me to draw my own mould on their cad system, right?

What (and who) have I missed?

[btroj]

I would start with a mould that is a design that fits a specific need of yours. I look at bullet design first, maker is secondary. A very well made mould that isn't a design I can use is of very little value to me.
I think a Lee 6 cav is a great way to start for handgun bullets. They are good moulds and will produce many good bullets. Being of somewhat "frail" design in compairison to some others they also will quickly let you know if you are not keepng them lubed or are abusing them in anyway. If you can get good bullets from a Lee 6 cav then you will truly be able to appreciate the quality of a custom made mould.

I feel like a broken record player butit is the caster, not the equipment that makes the biggest difference. Most of us learned on lower end equipment than we have today, it made us better at our hobby.

[tonyjones]

accuratemolds.com

[Nora]

Is there anyone on this site that owns Lee equipment that has not had to deal with constant and numerous problems in order to get it to do what it is expected to do

I am one of them, at least with casting equipment. I've been using a 10# bottom poor for the past 17 years with out a problem. Sure it likes to drip now and then but I've always got a screw driver on the bench for it. Couple of twists on the valve stem once every few pot fulls to me is just part of the process, not a problem. A good portion of my molds are Lee, and the boolits that they produce are every bit as good as my RCBS, Lymans, Hurters, and custom molds. With the exception of a C312-185-R1 that was a total pile when I got it (that one was from a few years ago when they had no QC to speak of). All others have needed next to no "Leementing" if any to get them to drop nice first round boolits. (I also pre-heat) Sure the mold will gall like crazy if you don't lube the sprue plate, but with Bullshop sprue plate lube, for a couple of $ a bottle that will last next to forever, so will the mold.

There may be better out there but for the money and the results I've had I will have no problem recommending them.

Nora

[Echo]

..........Well, my goodness!

I picked up on this from the start: "Okay, I'm getting closer to taking the plunge." Yes I did read the balance of Jammer 6's post.

I still stand by my statement: "..............My personal opinion, if you're starting out and would be casting for only pistols at first and using the KISS principle, it would be basically Lee equipment."

Yes it appears Jammer 6 is prepared to spend some cash right out of the gate for equipment, and I agree that buying quality and paying the price for it is never money poorly spent. However for less then $100 out of pocket he can be casting and shooting his own slugs by Thursday of next week. Compared to what he's prepared to spend when he makes his decision it'd be a pretty cheap set of training wheels.

He can be producing and shooting his own cast boolits for $100, and reading various recommendations and recriminations over the $379 RCBS furnace or $300 Lyman unit, and maybe the $300 Saeco lube/size press. The point is also he could very well decide he'd rather buy commercial cast instead of casting his own? Who knows? In my book, a new guy starting out can't go too far wrong in the beginning keeping it simple. But of course, that's my opinion and everyone has one.

...................Buckshot

+1, Rick. And, if after a year of working with the Lee stuff he decides he likes the Silver Stream, he can sell the Lee stuff (or keep it for back-up) on eBay and step up to more expensive equipment.

[cbrick]

+1, Rick. And, if after a year of working with the Lee stuff he decides he likes the Silver Stream, he can sell the Lee stuff (or keep it for back-up) on eBay and step up to more expensive equipment.

And since that is the correct way for you to approach this it is the correct way for everyone? It is not what the OP asked about, he did not ask for the best method of buying everything twice.

It is however why there is not just one set of equipment at one given level of quality for good or bad. For some people as cheap as possible is the one and only concern. There are many reasons for deciding which tool to purchase, for many people cheap is one of the worst and is usually regrettable.


Quote from the OP in thread #1.

I have three requirements. Note that, after all the equipment I've bought, a low price is not one of my requirements. I learned that the hard way. In fact, I learned it a few times. I'll either pay the price, or I won't do it.

One, I want to buy this equipment once.

Since I'm brand new, I anticipate having problems, and I don't want the problems to be the equipment.

Two, if there is an "automatic transmission", I want it.

The top end, for me, appears to be the line between the Magma Master Pot and the Magma Bullet Master. I am not interested in the machine, but I will consider the pot. I wish to cast, not operate a fully automated machine.

Does this sound even remotely like someone asking which LEE equipment to buy?

I am not saying that Buckshot or Echo are wrong, I'm saying that they are not right for everyone, right for them probably but not right for everyone.

Rick

[Bret4207]

It's much easier to teach a brand new apprentice on a large, powerful, cast iron cabinet saw than on a plastic Skil "table" saw from Homeless Despot.

It's much easier to learn when you've eliminated all the potential problems that you can, and isolated the skill you're trying to learn.

There's always a balance point in this stuff. You need to build trusses. Well, you can do it on the ground with ho'made jigs and a skill saw or you can do it with a 16" radial arm saw, a computer generated printout showing angles needed and a truss plant set up with jigs on a magnetic floor. Both systems work. Both are effective. The person who takes his time and pays attention will produce a quality product. I've built trusses both ways professionally. Good and bad to both systems. But putting $100K into a truss plant isn't economically viable for the amount I need. A Unisaw or whatever the top of the line saw cabinet saw is these days isn't going to teach me how to saw to the mark and read the wood. That comes from the guy pushing the stock into the blade. I agree adequate tools make everything easier, but handing a guy a $5K cabinet saw with the best fences and infeed/outfeed systems and the best blades you can buy isn't going to make him a better builder until he learns the process. And even then, there are limits to to what the man and equipment can do. This game isn't technically difficult- pour molten lead alloy into a hole. Most of carpentry isn't technically diffucult- cut board to length and angle, attach to other board. It's fitting all the pieces together in the right order and learning how to recognize that you misread 28 3/8 as 28 5/8 or that the difference between almost frosting and a little cool can mean everything...that's what no amount of money or prestige branded tool will get you.

It ain't the arrow you got to worry about, it's the indian shooting it!

[garym1a2]

I would say to start with a Star lubesizer, here is where Iwaste the most time and I use a RCBS LAM. Get air feed and a heater option and buy 50/50 lube for the 45acp.

for the press buy a Dillon 550B or 650B.

For casting get a Lee Melter pot and a good ladle, I can make better than 800 boolits an hour with this little pot and not leaks.

I would start off with the Lee 6up molds and get a 200SWC for the 45acp. The first few months with probally trash the mold and the Lee is a good one to learn on. Once you get some experance upgrade to the better molds.

With reloading get a good powder scale and a mics.