accuracy from a new Win 45-70, expecting too much?

[EDG]

Ted I would be interested since I have one of those rifles.

[bigted]

EDG ... I will start nother thread with details and photo's. ill name it "JAPCHESTER 1885 ACCURACY"

[303carbine]

Am I expecting too much?

To say I shoot a fair amount is an understatement. In the last couple of yrs I've started shooting F-TR comps so I'm at the range more than most. I reload for precision and I've come to expect a certain measure of accuracy from my rifles.

My rebarreled 30" Krieger barreled 308 is currently in load development printing 200 yard groups in the 2s and 3s. (one 3 shot cloverleaf at .155 moa). THe 308 that I hunt with will print .5 to .75 with 165SMKs. Hell, even my Knight muzzle loader, which it turns out is my absolute deer slayer, will shoot 1.5 or better.

My Highwall 45-70 on the other hand is driving me mad. This is a 24" Miroku manufactured rifle with no throat to speak of.

I've tried cast bullets and jacketed bullets from 300 to 405 grains. Loaded with H322, IMR 3031, Varget, Rx7 and 4198. MVs from about 1600 to 2200 and I cannot get it to group better than 2" at 100 yards.

I finally broke down and shot a 200 yard group last weekend with a load set of 300gn jacketed hollow points and it was just over 2MOA.

At this point there are several hundred rounds down the tube and I'm not happy with the results. I'm not looking for target rifle accuracy, but I would thing that it should shoot 1MOA. That's not too much to ask.


Has anyone else found a load that will shoot tight in these rifles?

Has anyone else done well with cast boolits? My boolit groups have been the worst. I've shot with and w.o GCs from 340s to 405s and they just don't seem to get there.

I'm seriously thinking of having my smith run a reamer into the chamber to give me a little more throat. The way the rifle is today have to seat Hornaday 350gn flat noses in past the cannelure or it won't chamber, and even then the lands put marks on the nose for 30 thousandths.

I am going to make this rifle shoot, or I'm going to learn what it likes to shoot or something. I really like the rifle, I want it to be my regular white tail rifle, but I have got to get it to the point that I am confident of my shot placement out to 200 yards or it isn't going to work. I have a friend who seems a little surprised at my confidence (and success) with my muzzle loader at ranges from 125 to 150. I know the ballistics, I trust the rifle, and it makes dead deer. Over a 200 yard field of fire I'd honestly just as soon carry it as a center fire, this is the rifle that I want to use in it's place muzzle loader season closes and rifle season opens, but right now it's not there.

I had a Browning B78 45-70 that I got to shoot better by getting the cast bullets sized and lubed at .460 and adding two wraps of Teflon tape over the lubed bullet. The speed was about 1750 fps, I was clover leafing shots at 100 yds. The RCBS 405 grain mould was used and a gas check was used.

[bigted]

303 ... so you are saying that AFTER the .460 size ... you then wrap the Teflon tape over the lube grooves? so then what is the final diameter?

[303carbine]

303 ... so you are saying that AFTER the .460 size ... you then wrap the Teflon tape over the lube grooves? so then what is the final diameter?

Yes, Teflon patched after sizing and lube, I didn't measure the final bullet, but it was very accurate.
I didn't try this in the Marlin, just the B78 Browning and not hot loaded.

[bigted]

interesting!

[jhalcott]

I read about some guy (Buffington?) shooting a 45-70 at a MILE! He was using ammo for his day. I am not certain what his alloy was, BUT his VELOCITY was no where near 2000FPS! I shoot a couple 45-70's and a 15" TC Contender handgun. Alloy and velocity will definetely change accuracy results. Your gun is certainly good enough for HUNTING, but may need some changes to become a viable BENCH REST gun.

[bigted]

indeed ... seems like we are all caught up in hunting loads for the venerable 45-70 trying to make it something it never was intended for. not saying that these heavier loads wont deliver and do so very well ... but we tend to forget that the lower velocity blackpowder loads did everything needed to do in the day. responsible for killin anything that walked or crawled for many a year. forgetting as well the very long range shooting these are capable of with just some care and trigger time to adjust for the added shooting yardage.

this round will take any game in America with 400ish grain boolits of fairly soft metal mix and mushrooming in such perfect shape that jacketed bullets just now are catching up with the perfect performance of these boolits ... and in the game fields they do just excellent on the game hunted.

it will also do all in the long range shoots with little to sufferable recoil of the slow 1000 to 1200 fps loads in 500+ grain boolits ... pushed along with the archaic powder that has been with us for just a bit longer then this grey/white looking powder we seem to like now-a-days.

good reminder "jhalcott" ...