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Thread: Reloading a fired primer

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    If I am not mistaken, the mixture in toy caps is Armstrong's mixture. It is a mixture of potassium chlorate and red phosphorus. Nasty stuff.
    Last edited by Milsurp Junkie; 01-16-2012 at 12:27 PM.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master
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    This is what I use. They come in a blister pak of four boxes. I found them at Wal-Mart in the toys section.



    If you can't find them, HERE is a link to a site where you can order them.
    Last edited by Jim; 12-27-2011 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master rsrocket1's Avatar
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    Potassium chlorate is what they used in corrosive primers. It turns into potassium chloride which is the water attracting salt that corrodes the barrel. A nice wash down of water and a drying of your gun gets rid of it until you bring your gun home for a proper cleaning.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman View Post
    Primers contain Lead styphnate which is very simple to make IF you can find the 2 main chemicals needed which are Lead oxide and Styphnic Acid and then methanol is used in the process. This is a DANGEROUS explosive and highly sensitive so it isnt for someone with no experience to work with.
    Here is a link...http://www.ehow.com/how_12134344_make-boxer-primer.html
    Basically you have to make the styphnic acid. For that you need resorcinol, sulfuric acid, nitric acid & an adulterant(normally sodium nitrite).

    To make the TNR into lead styphnate you need need sodium hydroxide, lead nitrate and acetic acid.

    See the NRA book "Ammunition Making" by George Frost for the details. The lead styphante is normally less than 40% of the primer mix.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    For a proven corrosive mix, FA-42 is what the US military used before FA-70 & was the original 30/06 primer. I think it was Hatcher that said if was really a great primer. It is:

    Potassium chlorate 47.20%
    Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
    Sulfur 21.97%

    There would be a binder added to this. I've loaded this as a dry mix w/o binder and it worked well. I left some exposed for 9 months in the basement & they all fire the round, but I've not done proper testing of them.

    Ron Browns PC 50% - sulfur 30% - glass 20% mix seemed to work. I'd have to look at my notes to see how long it lasted. He stated a month, but I know it was longer when I tested it.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    Toy caps are a mix of potassium chlorate, red phosphorus and antimony sulfide. Armstrong's mixture doesn't have the antimony sulfide in it. Armstrongs mixture will explode by just touching it.

    For those who can get or have red phosphorus or just interested - a mix of that and barium nitrate(these 2 only) is what the US Army adapted for a short while as a non-corrosive right after WW2. These primers had a short life in storage.

    FWIW, the new "green" P4 primer that the DOD is currently testing is based on plastic coated red phosphorus and potassium nitrate. Of course there is the normal additives(aluminum, TNT, etc). The last test I read said that the shelf live was good, the temp range good, a slight ignition delay & a small increase in misfires compared to current mil spec.
    Last edited by perotter; 12-27-2011 at 11:32 PM.

  7. #27
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    Jim: thanks for the feed back, I knew nothing about the chemsitry of priming compound and that's why I asked.

    I had to hunt for strike anywhere matches as well. My local Tru-Value hardware store has them but that''s the only place I've found. Still only $1.29 a box though. Did find out these are a standard Tru-Value warehouse item, so any TV hardware store should have them.

    I tried taking a spent primer apart yesterday and putting it back together. You have to smack the cup pretty good to get it to flatten out with one hit. I toonced it a few times and had to progressively hit harder, with a little practice it can be done in one shot.

    Also my Anvil did not want to stay in place,,, so I flattened it out just a little, then pressed it back in to the cup where it stayed.

    Looking for some caps.

    Thanks for the write up,and the reply, it may come in handy someday.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Mr. Buchanan, see the link at the bottom of post number 22 for a source for the caps.

    I'm paying $1.99 at the local hardware store for my 'strike anywhere's. The lady said they can only get them from the salesman when he drops by. The distributor charges HAZ-MAT to ship them and it makes them cost prohibitive. I still buy 'em and stay stocked up on 'em.

  9. #29
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    "Also my Anvil did not want to stay in place,,, so I flattened it out just a little, then pressed it back in to the cup where it stayed"
    As I stated in my post below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
    Worked this out myself many years ago. A few differences are that I cut the caps out with scissors, I too use two caps. I also take the anvil and flatten it between two flat surfaces with a controlled distance between them to get a accurate and repeatable anvil leg diameter. This make the anvil a press fit when placed back into the cup, again using two set distance flat surfaces, fillthe cup,with anvil already replaced, with firecracker powder. To prevent the powder from coming out of the cup into the case I use a paper hole punch to cut out discs from bread bags. These discs are then placed in the bottom of the primer pocket and the assembled primer is seated. I have not found that reloaded primers are any more sensitive than regular primers.
    They are corrosive and should be treated as such when cleaning the gun. I only fired them in my stainless 44mags after seeing what they did to my blued 357 BH.
    I wanted to add I use two caps in the LP primers and one cap in the SP primers with firecracker powder added to each type and of course the plastic discs in each. I don't remember what I used to cut the SP plastic discs.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    I am assuming a binder such as dextin would be used in this:
    Potassium chlorate 47.20%
    Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
    Sulfur 21.97%

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master WILCO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I still buy 'em and stay stocked up on 'em.
    Same here Jim. I see them, I buy them. Can never have too many strike anywhere matches.
    "Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face!" - Mike Tyson

    "Don't let my fears become yours." - Me, talking to my children

    That look on your face, when you shift into 6th gear, but it's not there.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Sonnypie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post

    I always look at what we would do if we were thrown into an apocalyptic situation. Weapons would always be on the top of the list as needed items, and a Black powder rifle would be the easiest to keep running over the long haul. (100+ years) or until you got the infrastructure to make new guns and ammo up and running. If you are thrown into a place where there are resources but no technology, then being able to make the components easily is key.

    I have enough ammo to last me for the rest of my life unless we get into a shootin war, however if we were able to fold time back into the past like on the "Terra Nova" show on Fox and get cut off from the future then the knowledge to make something out of nothing would come in handy. MIght be a good idea to take up archery as will.

    Randy
    Until the powers that be get an infrared read on you when you decided to take a nature call, and they send a rocket into your hovel.
    Game over.
    Have we not learned anything watching predator drone targeting?
    It isn't black helicopters anymore, Vern.
    My arms are for the hope I can die fighting. And that's why I don't have empty brass sitting around.
    "Uh, could you wait while I load up some ammo to shoot at you with?" "No?"
    I expect somebody will be able to use some of what I leave behind. If it isn't burned or blown up.
    Are you prepared to eat your liberal unarmed neighbors? They taste like pork.

    Then again, a big meteorite might just take care of the whole mess.

    I want to die peacefully in my sleep.
    Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in my car.
    God Bless America!

    Sittin here watchin the world go round and round...
    Much like a turd in a flushing toilet.

    Shoot for the eyes.
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  13. #33
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    I love the thread. I don't know if the effort is worth the trouble in the long run. I pay $4.99 / 100 209 primers, so, reloading them seems a bit troublesome to me, BUT, I have a bunch of spent primers from reloading shotshells if you need me to save them for you.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy BossHoss's Avatar
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    Great info, and another cool "survivalist" work around.

    I love this site.

    The sensitivity of the homemade caps are what I will be testing. The "equ-distant anvil leg" reset device is of utmost importance in this step, I am assuming.

    And I will test as such.

    I am not going to reload 1000 primers....but the knowledge of HOW, and having a "kit" , method and recipe , is priceless. IMO.

    Thanks again , Cast Boolits for bringing all the best people in our hobby together.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DODGEM250 View Post
    ..... I have a bunch of spent primers from reloading shotshells if you need me to save them for you.
    Shotshell (209) primers are a horse of an entirely different color. The primers I experimented with are those used in metallic cases.

    Boss,
    When I seated the recharged primer, I simply layed the anvil in the cup of the primer and gently seated it. The anvil kinda' 'self aligned' and centered up in the primer pocket of the case.

    I tested with Hodgdon's Triple Seven, Bullseye, Unique and IMR 4895. The two caps produced enough flash to ignite all of them.

    Truthfully, I did not expect the 4895 to light, but it did. I will tell you, though, I only fired one round of 4895. Irish luck? I tested the other powders two or three times each.

    With the 777, I used a 100% C/D charge in a .45 Colt under a 230 gr. boolit.

    With the Bullseye and Unique tests, I used a 158 gr. boolit in a .38 Spl. case. I set the charge against the flash hole with a punched piece of sheet dacron. I was afraid the cap flash might not make it into the case far enough to light the powder.

    Here's something I thought of , but did not test:
    How could I make a slow IMR powder light if the caps won't light it? At the moment, the only solution I can come up with is to place a small 'igniter' charge of something like 777 or Bullseye under the main charge. Not enough to spike pressures, but just enough to produce a good flash to kick off the main charge.

    This would, however, require either a 100% case density or a filler of some description to keep the 'starter' charge from moving and dislocating and/or migrating into the main charge. That would, I believe, require some special planning. You can't just go crowding any ol' IMR powder. Might get a little more bang for your buck than you bargained for!

    Any suggestions? Anybody wanna do a little testing?
    Last edited by Jim; 12-30-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milsurp Junkie View Post
    I am assuming a binder such as dextin would be used in this:
    Potassium chlorate 47.20%
    Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
    Sulfur 21.97%
    Yes. The one problem with use that one is that it takes a greater % of it than other binders and that lessens the ability of the primer to ignite the powder. Of course the advantage is you can make it yourself or buy it very cheaply.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    FWIW, one thing to keep in mind when reloading primers is that the residue in once-fired commercial primer contains a high % of lead oxide. IMO, one should run them thru a ultra sonic cleaner, etc before doing a very large number. And take more caution than one would when casting bullets.

  18. #38
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    reloading primers

    Hi
    I have done this with berdan rifle primers. The toy pistol cap idea is the better way to go.I have also tried the strike anywhere matches and they were very weak.Super Bang caps I found at the Dollar General 2000 for $2. You have to be selective and only use the bigger dots. I punched them out with a paper punch. Be prepaired for some surprises when seating.You will set some off. They seem to be ok after seating though. I used these in shooting some cast boolit loads in a 8mm mauser with medium fast powders. Probably a 8 out of 10 success rate ,some hangfires too. The bolt action is about the easiest to clean for this. Usually just the barrel and wipe the bolt face.
    I have made caps for my muzzleloaders too. Four super bang caps per cup works the best. A rifle with a good open flame path to the powder works the best. A nipple with a larger than usual hole drilled helps . As does a Strong hammer hit.
    Toy pistol caps or match heads you need to have a VERY complete cleaning routine. The rust is tough to stop when using these caps. A final soakdown with Ballistol or Hoppies will suffice. Not much else will stop it.
    Have fun guys and be safe
    n.h.schmidt

  19. #39
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    Jim: At one time it was standard practice to load light charges of 4831 with 2 gr of Unique under it for better ignition and no hang fires with CAst boolits.

    I read that in a Venturino article on loading cast for the .30-06. Aparently he got the load from the NRA magazine back in the 60's.

    So if this is what it takes to get reliable ignition with your reloaded primers then so be it. It's been done before so it should work now too.

    After I saw the chemicals used to make priming compound and saw they were all corrosive, I deduced that caps are the way to go.

    I think by flattening the anvils just a bit and pressing them into the cup with a small arbor press,,,very slowly,,, you would cut way down on the misfires while loading.

    This is one more thing to add to our "mental toolbox" and you never know when it might come in handy.

    Once again, Thanks to everyone for the knowledge.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Mr. Buchanan, you bring up some good points.
    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Jim: At one time it was standard practice to load light charges of 4831 with 2 gr of Unique under it for better ignition and no hang fires with CAst boolits.

    What concerns me about this is the kicker becoming 'blended', as it were, into the main charge. Seems to me that something would have to locate the main charge to prevent it from moving around.

    After I saw the chemicals used to make priming compound and saw they were all corrosive, I deduced that caps are the way to go.

    I have to agree. Furthermore, I'm a bit hesitant to go mixing chemicals that might launch me through the roof of my shed.

    I think by flattening the anvils just a bit and pressing them into the cup with a small arbor press,,,very slowly,,, you would cut way down on the misfires while loading.

    That's a good point. Only thing I can respond to immediately is, one would have to be very careful in doing so. I'm thinking if the anvil legs were spread too far out, they might cause a problem with the anvil being fitted back into the cup.

    This is one more thing to add to our "mental toolbox" and you never know when it might come in handy.

    Once again, Thanks to everyone for the knowledge.

    Randy
    This is an interesting discussion, mostly acedemic at this stage and certainly way outside the box. I certainly don't have my thumb down on it. Like you, I appreciate all the feedback. Gran'daddy said two heads are better than one even if one IS empty!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check