RB in a rifled barrel

[161]

Anybody have any luck shooting RB in a Remington rifled barrel?

[longbow]

I only shot a few (3 or 4 five shot groups) but 0.735" round balls gave some nice groups of about 2" at 50 yards from a light Remington 870 with HARD recoil pad that beat me senseless (well, okay then, more senseless)!

I suspect the gun and load were capable of better accuracy but I had been shooting various slug loads in various guns for a while before shooting these and was getting pretty badly beaten up so wasn't as steady as I might have been.

While 0.735" is more than a bit over bore diameter, there is little meat at the equator and they shot fine with no pressure signs. Recovered balls show good rifling around them.

In the testing I did in both smoothbore and rifled guns, I found that a hard card wad column with a plastic gas seal over the powder gave me my best results.

Longbow

[161]

My thought is to use a .690 RB that I have ran thru a .685 sizer then shoot it in a shot wad out of a rifled barrel. When I size the RB the pusher makes a nice flat side for the RB to sit on in the wad. My question is will the rifleing stabalizwe the RB or will it tumble and not fly straight because the ball isn't round front to back due to the sizing.
Thanks
161

[Jim]

My thought is to use a .690 RB that I have ran thru a .685 sizer then shoot it in a shot wad out of a rifled barrel. When I size the RB the pusher makes a nice flat side for the RB to sit on in the wad. My question is will the rifleing stabalizwe the RB or will it tumble and not fly straight because the ball isn't round front to back due to the sizing.
Thanks
161

I can't speak to this from experience as I've never done it. However, I have fired RBs from a muzzle loader with plastic sabots. Seems to me the plastic shot cup would act like a sabot for the RB. If you can get the fit right and the shot cup is engaging the riflings of the barrel, it oughta' shoot fairly decent. Your idea about sizing the RB to fit tells me you're thinkin'. If the flat of the RB is truly sittin' on the bottom of the shot cup, it should stabilize.

If you can get this to work, I'm sure there are some people here that would be interested in your data.

[longbow]

161:

I can't answer directly because I haven't tried it but if my 0.735" RB swaged to 0.727" groove flew well, I can't see why a 0.680" RB with small belt and flat on it wouldn't fly well.

I had originally thought the 1:36" (or is it 1:38") twist would be too fast but it seemed to work well for me. This was a short test as I had shot several loads including the 0.735" RB in smoohbore guns and had a borrowed Remington 870 with rifled barrel so tried it for a few shots.

A friend said he read an article a while back about 0.662" RB's loaded into thick petal steel shot wads giving very good accuracy at rather high velocities. These weren't sized as far as I know so distortion wouldn't be an issue there.

I would be more concerned about the ball/shotcup fit and whether the shotcup would take the rifling well enough especially a thin petal shotcup. The bearing surface on a ball is very small and the plastic may shear or extrude too much to grip.

Also, from experience, I suggest using at least one 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad under the ball to keep the shotcup from extruding up around the ball. A scoop of cornmeal or COW under the ball also helps.

Most of my RB and slug loads have been over Blue Dot as I had lots. From comparing recovered shotcups my impression is that slow powder is easier on the gas seal/shotcup than fast powder.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Why not load up a few and see how they go.

Longbow

[161]

Does anybody makes a wad with thicker pedals? I shot several of my .685 RB with a gray WW wad with 23 gr of Unique out of my smooth bore last fall and they shot plenty good enough to kill deer at 50 yards.

Just some thoughts I looked up and found there are 437 grains in an oz. My RB weighs 485. So I guess that to be close to 1 1/8 I divided 437 by 8 = 54.625 grains per 1/8 oz. 54.625 X 9 =491.625.
So if my math is right my RBs are 6.625 grains less that 1 1/8 oz.

[longbow]

Not sure if anyone has info on wad petal thickness commonly available but there us certainly some variation amongst manufacturers and types plus there are steel shot wads that are very thick.

I had Winchester AA Red and Pacific Versalite which have quite thick soft petals and I have some Winchester wads now in several sizes that are much thinner and harder plastic.

I have read comments that the Federal wads are thin and tough but do not have any to check and compare.

BPI has RB recipes for 0.690" ball in shotcup but any shotcups I have tried so far are too thick for 0.690" ball and crush badly often shearing, so BPI wads must have thinner or certainly tougher petals. The Winchester AA Red and Pacific Versalite are way to thick for 0.690" ball in my guns anyway. I think 0.675" to maybe 0.680" would be okay.

A lot depends on bore diameter as well. My smoothbores are 0.730" but the Rewmington 870 I borrowed was 0.727" groove.

AJ Madan (VdoMemorie) does a lot of wad slug shooting so may have some good info on petal thicknesses.

If you haven't seen it here is a handy RB weight calculator for different diameters and alloys:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/resc.../roundball.htm

That probably doesn't help a lot but its all I've got.

Longbow

[161]

Where can I buy nitro cards? I found a combo with the .685 and a Windjammer wad that fits tight but it could use a card under the ball. I loaded 6 of them with 21 gr. Unique WW 209 and AA hulls. Found a problem with my scope so I changed that out tonight
Thanks for the help Guys

[longbow]

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Nit...partments/211/

http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm...Code=CARD_WADS

I would use at least one 1/8" nitro card wad in a shotcup with a scoop of cornmeal, COW or buffer ~ just enough to form a seat for the ball.

20 ga. is probably the best fit for most shotcups but I have been using 16 ga. in some.

Longbow

[161]

If my copy and past worked you can see the RB sized to .685. There are some pic of the wad with 1.0 cc of oat meal in it and the ball before I crimped it. And after the crimp. I took regular oat meal and ran it through a blender to make it finer . Tell me what you think
161

http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/th...NAME=snapfish/

[longbow]

I can't seem to view your album. I just get one photo and an attempt to get me to join.

Oatmeal should work fine. COW or cornmeal work and don't need the blender step.

One more suggestion is to either use the filler to raise the ball so the middle of the ball is flush with tops of petals or cut the petals so that no petal sticks above the ball. My feeling is that if petal sticks above the middle of the ball it can be damaged opening the crimp. Damaged petals = inaccuracy.

Longbow

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Longbow, here are the wad petal thickness:
Fed.12S0 21.5 to 26.5 thickness!
Fed.12C1 21.5 to 23 thickness!
Fed.12S3 17 to 19 thickness!
Fed.12S4 20 to 27 thickness, brown wad!
Win.AA 21.5 to 23 thickness, white wad!
Win. 12F114 19 to 21 thickness, yellow wad!
Hor.Versalite 25 to 31 thickness, red wad!
I could not get my hands on the Win. AA Red wad!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to this wonderful family of slug shooters!
Hope it helps!
Ajay
Video Memories
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[161]

Try this maybe I should learn to run a puter first.
Thanks
161



http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/sl...NAME=snapfish/

http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/sl...NAME=snapfish/


http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/sl...NAME=snapfish/



http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/sl...NAME=snapfish/



http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/sl...NAME=snapfish/

[longbow]

Ajay:

Now how did I know you would have petal thicknesses handy? You always come through with good info!

I do have some old and news wads downstairs so I will have to mic petals and make a list. This is good info for all to have as it makes it easier to choose shotcups for a given slug.

I will post what I find. The more we know the better off we are.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and everyone else as well!

Longbow

[nanuk]

listening to you guys makes me realize I know diddly about shotgun reloading

[161]

21 gr. Unique
AA hulls
.690 RB
Claybuster 12AASL
Oatmeal filler
2.25 @ 50

Same load exept
.680 RB
Clatbuster AA12

2.5 or 3 in. @ 50

Same loads without filler 6 inches @ 50.

Do nitro cards work better than fillers??
Starting to see some promise. Very mild load.
161

[longbow]

161:

Yeah, I took a look at your photos. Everything looks good to me. The only concern I would have is that the sized ball has a narrow band around it so it may not line up right as it hits the rifling due to small bearing area and possibility of cocking as it hits rifling. It won't hurt anything but accuracy though if it is a problem.

The 0.690" RB load above seems to be working for you, nothing wrong with 2.25" group.

Is the 0.680" RB sized or actually a 0.680" RB? If you can avoid sizing then it saves a step and also eliminates the possibility of any misalignment of sized band to rifling (balls are always pointed forward).

I would use a nitro card or two wad and filler.

I think two nitro card wads or about 1/4" hard card wad without filler should work okay but the ball may rotate as it leaves the hull/enters the barrel.

Filler without card wads may be okay depending on the wad and the filler helps keep the ball from rotating as it forms a nice cup (I think anyway). If the wad doesn't have a strong base to the cup it may extrude around the ball though filler alone should help stop that.

However, I think it is best to use both. Try loading a few rounds of each and see what works for you and your gun.

I have mostly used Blue Dot for slug loads so far... at least for slugs over about 1 1/4 oz.

My basis for loads for heavy slugs was a published pressure tested load of 44 grs. Blue Dot under a 610 gr. solid slug.

I got to 38 grs. under a 0.735" round ball and recoil beat me up so bad I did not bother load hotter. I have also used Blue Dot with good results with 0.662" round balls that are 1 oz. loaded into shotcups.

You do have to be careful when loading for shotguns and with slugs in particular because small changes can raise pressures bunches so best to used published load recipes.

Longbow

[161]

I have a bad shoulder so I'm not looking for a real heavy load. Just something cheap and fun to shoot. And we all know its more fun to hunt with our own loads. The .690 did shoot better for me than the "sized" .680. I get a little tighter fit with the .690 in the Claybuster white wad than the 12AASL so I'm going to try that next. I found some of the wad yesterday the ones that had oatmeal in them looked a lot better that those without. I've shot several deer with low recoil 1 oz slugs that run about 1000 FPS and the go through both sides. That's all I need. Another thought I have is my barrel is a 3 inch chamber does the extra jump from a 2 3/4 make a difference?
Thanks
161

[longbow]

My barrels are all 3" as well and yes, I think the jump does cause problems. Oddly, I have not tried 3" hulls yet. Just stubborn I guess.

What I have found for my loads and guns is that I get better consistency using "wad slugs" ~ that is balls or slugs in standard shotcups.

Not sure why it is but my feeling is that the shotcup provides some assistance in getting the slug across the gap between hull mouth and forcing cone.

I have made very long full bore Brenneke style slugs that spanned that gap and they did not shoot as well as the same style (but shorter) loaded into shotcups.

I have also seen recovered 0.735" RB's that must have picked up a spin on the hull, crimp or forcing cone as the swaged belt around the middle was uneven.

My take is that the jump is part of this problem and a shotcup helps control the slug entry to the barrel. Since it is also easier to load using standard shotcups than making up hard card wad columns, this is a good thing.

If you want a low recoil load, use an equivalent weight shot load of the velocity you want and it should be a fairly light load though the slug will probably produce a little higher velocity than the shot due to less bore friction.

Longbow

[161]

I happened to be at the local farm and home store and they had a 12 piece hollow punch set from 1/8 to 3/4. I bought some gasket material, 1/32 fiber and 1/16 cork. Will these materials make good under slug wads? And I assume I can stack them.
Thanks
161