.22 LR sporter accuracy

[calkar]

Sounds like a lemon. I just got a CZ lemon (the silhouette model), 6" vertical strings with wolf at 100m and a bad trigger. Sent it back trigger is the same and their gunsmith shot a 1.700 or so with Black Eley at 50m and customer service honcho Matt Hunter said thats within their specs. Wow! Trigger would pull all the way to the back of the trigger guard without firing. Then engage and disengage safety. When safety was disengaged rifle would fire.

[PB234]

Calker,

I have two CZ rimfires (452 American and 452 full stock) and they are terrific. If you remain unhappy with the piece and willing to send it to a smith in Illinois I have one who is excellent with CZ rifles. Private message me for more info.

PB234

[gmsharps]

I know you have probably recehcked but take another look at the scope mounts.

gmsharps

[405]

Bulk vs good vs top of the line ammo won't matter much with what appears to be a gun problem. Something is not right with the gun or the scope. Most decent 22s, sporter or whatever, should shoot somewhere around 1/2-1" at 50 yds with decent ammo. I've found for casual 22 sporter use the CCI Blazer is as good as any for the price. The really good and expensive ammo usually can only justify itself with the truly good target/match type rifles.

[NickSS]

I own several sporters none of which are remingtons. Two are CZ 452s, one a Ruger 7722 and one Browning T bolt. All these rifles will print 1/2 inch groups with their favorite ammo at 50 yards and sometimes smaller groups. The CZs are the least critical as they seam to like almost anything I put in them. My little 452 scout is my favorite and it will shoot into 2.5 inches all day long at 200 yards with Winchester bulk 555 ammo I get from Walmart My CZ Lux is a bit more critical as it likes a smaller variety of ammo.

[303Guy]

I have a Remington 512 Sport Master. I won sillywet club competitions with this rifle but when I fitted a silencer with misaligned baffles it shot all over the place. Turned out the muzzle was funnel shaped. I chopped off the silencer threads and it's groups tightened up considerably. It's real accurate now. Something to check. Something else is the bore diameter. I have a barrel that is somewhat larger than it should be. No idea how it would shoot. Then again I smoothed out my Dads rusted bore Orberndorf Mauser using abrasive kitchen cleaner. It's still rough but does not pick up lead and shoots pretty good. The abrasive only took off the sharp edges of the rust pits.

[Herb in Pa]

Remington 504's in 22lr with sporter barrels were hit or miss in the accuracy department which is why they were discontinued and reborn as the 547. The target models with the heavier barrel and laminated stocks in 22lr did not suffer the same accuracy issues. I own a 504T which shot acceptably with the original heavy barrel, but is markedly improved with the Lilja it now wears. I'm not sure if Remington produced the sporter barrels in house, but the new incarnation of the sporters use Shilen barrels.

It's a very robust action design with a decent adjustable trigger........just too bad that the bean counters at Remington went on the cheap with the original sporter barrels.

[Tallyman]

Many years ago I purchased a Savage-Anschutz Model 141 .22 sporter at a gun show. The seller was not happy with the accuracy of the rifle and sold it to me at a reasonable price. I had many brands of .22LR ammo on hand and brought about 7 different brands with me to the rifle range. I also brought multiple bullseye targets with me. I believe there were 10 bullseyes on each target and I set the targets on the 50 yard range.

Using a bench and sandbags I started shooting 5 shot groups at each bullseye with a different brand of ammo. I also put a copy of the same target on the bench in front of me and recorded what ammo I shot at each bullseye.

After a few groups I started to learn something interesting. In almost all cases, the first shot was a flyer. When I changed ammo the first shot was again a flyer. I decided to put up a clean target and start over. This time I took 6 rounds out of each box and fired the first round into the back stop, then shot a 5 shot group. For the next group with a different brand of ammo, I again fired the first shot into the back stop and then fired another 5 shot group.

I repeated this until I had fired a 5 shot group with each brand of ammo. The target revealed some interesting facts. Each group was different. One group might be high and to the left, the next group might be to the right of the bullseye at 3 o'clock., the next group would not be a group at all and the next one would be clustered into a 1/2 inch group.

I repeated this exercise several times until I knew what ammo my rifle liked and what it didn't. Ironically, some of the most expensive Winchester and CCI ammo performed the worst and the cheaper Federal bulk pak and CCI Blazers did the best. In fact, the Blazers shot consistently the best groups and that is my preferred ammo to use in that rifle even today.

So before you condemn your .22 rifle as being inaccurate, try firing groups with different brands of ammo. It took me a long time to find the right dog food that my dog actually enjoys at every meal and a little experimenting with .22 ammo to find the best ammo for my Savage-Anschutz Model 141.

[Dave Bulla]

Sounds like you've already tried most of the obvious stuff like multiple types of ammo, different scopes, different mounts, glass bedding, floating the barrel, pressure point at the fore end, recrowned the muzzle etc.

About the only thing I'd say is left would be to clean REALLY good, go through a lead removal process then lap the bore with JB bore paste. I'm thinking there is a chance that you had some kind of burr in the bore that might have caused leading to occur. Leading is not normally a problem with a rimfire 22 but if there was a rough spot of some sort or maybe a tight spot where a dovetail was cut or where the rollstamp was put on the barrel, it might be enough to cause your problems. Once it starts just a little bit, it only gets worse unless you can get it back down to clean metal. When running a super tight patch through the bore, does it kinda hang up anywhere?

Since you recrowned the barrel already, you probably can't send it back.

By chance, did you recrown BECAUSE you were getting bad accuracy or BEFORE you were getting poor groups? Have you ever recrowned a barrel before and was it done correctly?

Even a cheap, beat up 22 should shoot better than 2" at 50 yards. A quality sporter should shoot under 1/2" and a real good one will shoot a rough hole off sandbags with a good scope and trigger.

That's all I can think of for now.

[Herb in Pa]

Here's one of the many threads on RFC dealing with the 504..........


http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...=remington+504

[Multigunner]

A possibility has occured to me. I've seen a few .22 bores that had crossways striations on the top of the lands for the full length of the bore.

I looked into possible causes and found that some button rifled, and perhaps some hammer forged barrels, if the bore is not properly finish reamed to a slick surface before rifling it will have these striations left from the boring operation.
I suppose this could happen with cut rifled bores as well, but if cut rifled the striations would only remain on the top surface of the lands, while button rifled or hammer fored bores would have the striations in the bottom of the grooves as well.
The article I found this in had images of sectioned barrels demonstrating this defect.
The author mentioned having a button rifled barrel that became metal fouled in only a few shots fired. A barrel from the same blank chambered at the opposite end did not foul at all.
The process of passing the button through the bore under great pressure had pushed the top edges of the striation in only one direction. This left the surface of the bore as a microscopicly toothed file . When chambered from the end opposite to the direction the button had been passed the edges had been turned over in the direction of bullet travel so no grinding away at the jacket took place.

I think the only way to correct such a problem would be by lead lapping, though fire lapping might do the trick.

I've heard of some rifle bores being lapped both before and after rifling was cut, probably to avoid these sorts of striations on the lands.

[peerlesscowboy]

Sounds like you've already tried most of the obvious stuff like multiple types of ammo, different scopes, different mounts, glass bedding, floating the barrel, pressure point at the fore end, recrowned the muzzle etc.

About the only thing I'd say is left would be to clean REALLY good, go through a lead removal process then lap the bore with JB bore paste. ..............

Happy to see the thread had a revival here
Update;
At the suggestion of lapping with J-B Bore paste upthread I tried it and I'd definitely say accuracy is much improved, enuf so that I'm convinced that is/was the main problem.

[peerlesscowboy]

...................................
By chance, did you recrown BECAUSE you were getting bad accuracy or BEFORE you were getting poor groups? Have you ever recrowned a barrel before and was it done correctly?

I took the rifle to a professional gunsmith to have the action glass bedded and the barrel floated because of the poor accuracy out of the box, he (the gunsmith) suggested the crown didn't look right so I told him to go ahead and recrown it then also. ........so I assume it was done correctly? Looks good to me.

[jh45gun]

CZ 452 ultra lux .625 ten shot groups at 50 yards. (remington goldbullets 550 value-pack)
I got tired of dealing with BS like you are experiencing, and decided to find out what the most accurate, out-of-the-box .22 was. The answer across the board was CZ 452.
It is sad that American firearms manufacturers do not value accuracy anymore. Actually they seem to throw fit, form, and function out the window entirely leaving only a rifle that looks good from a distance.
I had a ruger 10-22 that would shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, brand new! (Ruger's blatant disregard for quality and accuracy is becoming legendary)
I bought a marlin bolt action .22 Mag that would only give me 2" groups at 50 yards.
I hated to give my money to the Check republic but American rifles cannot be depended on for accuracy.
Every now and then you might get an exceptional piece, but usually, you have to be ready to rebarrel to get good performance, as well as taking a few ounces worth of sharp edges off with a file, only then can you expect to get a decent rifle.
The one exception to this bleak situation could be Savage. They have always handled like junk and looked like junk, and had junky trigger pulls, but they have always been pretty accurate. And lately I have been very surprised by the improvements they have made to the look and feel of their latest rifles. If I were to buy a new American rifle at this point, it would almost surely be a savage.
I hope Remington will do right by you.

Did you shoot different brands of ammo with that 22 mag? Marlin Bolt actions normally shoot very well Your comment about American rifles is BS I use a Marlin 80 for Silhouette shooting. I have a Sears branded 80 also that shoots as good. My Henry 22 mag with the ammo it likes will shoot ragged one hole groups at 50 yards if I do my part. Lots of American brand 22 rifles are accurate.

[303Guy]

Lots of American brand 22 rifles are accurate.

Makes sense to me. My cheapo Remington Sportmaster is as accurate as can be, as old as it is but it did have a worn muzzle which once cut off, became accurate at longer distances. I have another similar Remington I haven't tried yet.

[mainiac]

CZ 452 ultra lux .625 ten shot groups at 50 yards. (remington goldbullets 550 value-pack)
I got tired of dealing with BS like you are experiencing, and decided to find out what the most accurate, out-of-the-box .22 was. The answer across the board was CZ 452.
It is sad that American firearms manufacturers do not value accuracy anymore. Actually they seem to throw fit, form, and function out the window entirely leaving only a rifle that looks good from a distance.
I had a ruger 10-22 that would shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, brand new! (Ruger's blatant disregard for quality and accuracy is becoming legendary)
I bought a marlin bolt action .22 Mag that would only give me 2" groups at 50 yards.
I hated to give my money to the Check republic but American rifles cannot be depended on for accuracy.
Every now and then you might get an exceptional piece, but usually, you have to be ready to rebarrel to get good performance, as well as taking a few ounces worth of sharp edges off with a file, only then can you expect to get a decent rifle.
The one exception to this bleak situation could be Savage. They have always handled like junk and looked like junk, and had junky trigger pulls, but they have always been pretty accurate. And lately I have been very surprised by the improvements they have made to the look and feel of their latest rifles. If I were to buy a new American rifle at this point, it would almost surely be a savage.
I hope Remington will do right by you.

Ive got a 77/22 ruger that will shoot .5 or under @50 yards,with only trigger work done to it.

I have 2 different marlin 39 leverguns,that will do under an inch@ 50,with the barrell mounted open sites.

Thats pretty good shooting,from where im from,,,dont see no need for a foreign made gun....

[leadman]

I have found that the CCI 36gr HP ammo shoot well in all of my 22s. Some it is the most accurate, some it is #2 or #3 in the various guns.
It is outstanding in my left hand 581.
I had never had any leading in previous years but about 6 months ago I was shooting some bulk stuff, think it was Federal, and it leaded the bore of my 581 and accuracy deteriorated.

[stryker60]

You might try this guy's method:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=335936


James

[Forrest r]

Herb in PA nailed it when he said that the accuracy is hit & miss on the Remington 504’s. I’m a huge Remington rimfire fan & they really dropped the ball on with these rifles. They put 1 in 14 twist bbl’s on them. The 1 in 14 twist bbl’s are normally on 22 mags, Remington 22-250’s & some of the high end (Anschutz) biathlon 22lr rifles.

Right out of the Remington brochure for the 504, note the rate of twist listed for the 504 bbl.

[IMG][/IMG]

[dano440]

try finding a bullet that is around 1080 to 1150 fps non-hollow point around 40 grains and see what happens

suggestion: Eley Sport $3.49 per box of 50 then weight them and find the most come weight. then burn the rest in a handgun.