.500 bullet from 45 ACP

[BT Sniper]

Been experimenting in the shop a lot latly. I was able to make my own reamer and set out to make a .475 die. Like my last attempts this one too got big on me so grab a .500 reamer and away I went. I expect I'll have a .475 pic by teh end of the week.

This is what I came up with.



My 40 cal bullet is on left and my latest progress on 22 cal is on right. For the 500s I used 44 cal cast boolits for the cores. WIth a 240 grain core I get a 330 grain 500 bullet and with teh 310 core I get a 390 grain bullet. I bet the 265 grain 44 cal core would be perfect. As it is the cores I used made great bullets. I expect it would make a BIG hole it whatever it hits.

I turned the rim off one of the 500 bullets and looks pretty good. Removed about 20 grains from weight of bullet.

I know of a couple 500 shooters out here I will be sending some of these bullets for testing.

Good Shooting and Swage On

BT

p.s. meplat on this bullet is .250 same for upcoming .475

[DukeInFlorida]

.500 test shooters???

Me! Me!

Brian, is this a one step die?

Would love to be able to make jacketed .500 bullets for my 500 magnum revolver and long gun.

[BT Sniper]

another close up pic!

[BT Sniper]

Yep I figured I would send you a few with your new ram.

Nope can't be done in one step Sorry

Is easy to form the traditional two step way though.

1. seat core
2. form bullet

Still!!!!! An AWESOME looking bullet!

[littlejack]

Those are very nice lookin bullets Brian. You sir, are a fine craftsman.
Jack

[DukeInFlorida]

WOW

Jaw hit the floor just now.

another close up pic!

[BT Sniper]

Thanks guys. I'm starting to get the hang of it. It is still frustrating at times. Need a lot of patience.

Ahh Heck.... those where just my first "practice" or "test" bullets that came out of the die. Wait till I fine tune things a bit.

You know I got to thinking looking at that big HP. Has anyone filled a large HP with hot glue? Probably need to trim the excess but that would be simple with a exato blade. Seems the dried glue would be flexable (flextip) after drying, probably look cool and make the expansion near 100% reliable. Now if I could just find red hot glue we could copy a well know bullet maker

Anyway I'll keep you posted on the 500 progress.

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Forget filling the void with anything.

HP's work best when the air cavity gets compressed, and causes the deformation. Fill it with something, and you might as well have a solid point.

The only exception to that would be the Hornady FTX style bullets, but there they are looking for aerodynamics and soft cushion for tubular magazine situations.

[scarry scarney]

Great looking bullet! Please tell us more. I've got three different 50 cals that could use this! 50 Beowulf, 50 AE, and. 50 GI. The 50 GI uses a 250 - 300 grain, and is the smallest choice of bullets, and you just opened the market!

BTW, what did you use for the canelure groove?

[DukeInFlorida]

BT is sending me some 50 caliber swaged bullets, as samples. He says, "The good, the bad, and the ugly"

I'll load them into shootable rounds, and take some pictures in 500 S&W Magnum. I have a few pcs of 50 AE (Action Express, the Desert Eagle caliber), and will try to stuff a few into that also.

My experience with straight walled brass and these swaged bullets is that they really benefit from the cannelure.

To answer scarry scarney's question, CH4D makes a neat cannelure tool. BT Sniper is a CH4D distributor, and can get you a deal on that tool. Link: http://ch4d.com/catalog/?p=90

[BT Sniper]

I actually used a corbin cannalure machine for my bullets.

The bullets I sent Duke where just my R&D bullets. Bulllets I made while setting up the die and checking for proper diameters. They are mostly seconds but will give him an idea of what is possible.

I'll probaly make a few more of these 50s but not to many untill the die is properly heat treated.

As far as making the bullet goes...... it was pretty straight foward. The 45ACP case worked perfect for a jacket. Seems like a 44 or 45 cal cast bullet of 255 grains perfectly fills the jacket without need for triming it giving us a 340 grain bullet. The 310 grain cast boolit core makes a BIG 390 grian bullet.

I think this will be an exellent solution to affordable bullets for any of the 500 cal shooters. Have to figure out a new ogive for the 50AE though.

I'll keep everyone posted.

BT

[Grandpas50AE]

BT, I have Corbin dies for the 50AE, and up until now have been using copper water tubing to make the jackets (I have a set of Corbin dies for that too). I would venture here that the only die I would have to change to get those bullets would be the core seating die, and could then use the point forming die I already have - is that a reasonable assumption?

[stealthshooter]

Forget filling the void with anything.

HP's work best when the air cavity gets compressed, and causes the deformation. Fill it with something, and you might as well have a solid point.

The only exception to that would be the Hornady FTX style bullets, but there they are looking for aerodynamics and soft cushion for tubular magazine situations.

That's actually not true. Filling the cavity is beneficial to expansion and it also keeps the cavity from filling with material such as T-shirt or jacket material that would actually keep it from expanding. Hornady has started doing this with their pistol ammo for such reasons. I use Hornady 200 grain FTX for my 45acp with the tips clipped off flush with the copper so they will feed properly. I did a water shot and they expanded to a text book mushroom.

45acp
200GR FTX
1200fps
water shot

[DukeInFlorida]

Technically, I didn't suggest that FTX style bullets wouldn't expand like you have shown. That wasn't my point.

I'm not expecting to have anyone who makes HP swaged bullets to ever have to fire a shot with a swaged bullet in self defense.

However, conventional writings on this subject seem to indicate that the small amount of air contained inside the HP tip gets compressed upon impact, and then get released during penetration, thereby increasing the tissue damage from the shock wave. That was the point of my comment. Fill the HP with anything, and you remove that compression/release enhancement during the shock wave. I'm not talking about expansion of the bullet. I'm talking about the shock wave that really does the damage. Sure, an expanded bullet makes a bigger shock wave. An expanded bullet with compressed air in the HP makes a bigger shockwave, and causes more tissue damage than just an expanded bullet.

So, for those who are shooting at a piece of paper target, it's a moot point. Unless you're shooting at paper from great distances, and then a pointy projectile makes more sense.

For those shooting at game animals, you decide which is more beneficial. Controlling how deep a projectile goes is sometimes the difference between a successful hunt and an unsuccessful one.

From my perspective, the only purpose for a nose filler piece is IF it's pointy insert, like the Hornady TFX. That enhances the flight characteristics and helps with the tubular magazine feed issue.

[Reload3006]

+1 with Duke. there is something that your neglecting in your assumption about expansion. The TFX and others with filled cavity the jacket is serrated thus it has been intentionally weakened ensuring expansion. but Expansion can be a double edged sword as Duke pointed out. if you don't have good core bond to jacket once expansion occurs you have core separation issues. a lot of times that is more the reason for a cannelure than a place to crimp your bullet. If your shooting steel rams or paper who cares if your core separates but if you need reliable expansion and penetration you want a projectile whose terminal performance is what is expected. Thus you have bonded cores the "A" frame bullet etc. I make ballistic tips too but i serrate my jackets to cause that expansion that i would not have to do with an open tip or soft point.

[stealthshooter]

If I'm not mistaken BT also uses a seration die on his hollow points to produce a very similar bullet to the hornady xtp. What you fail to realize is that bullet only made it through 2 Gatorade bottles filled with water and the very first exit hole was massive meaning it expanded and caused a preassure wave in the first 6 inches.

[DukeInFlorida]

Right, which if you go back and read my most previous post, I say that the point design can control how deeply a bullet enters a game animal. Too much expansion too fast will stop soon, minimizing the depth of the shock wave.

No expansion will just pass through an animal with a slight shock wave.

So, do what you need to do, to control how the bullet behaves for your use.

For my typical use, serrated HP's with NO filler added.

My only exception to that will be when I start making .308 bullets with my upcoming BT Sniper tool set, for my 30-30. And in that, I will be using the ski binding polymer pointy tip inserts, so that they look and behave like Hornady FTX bullets.

If I'm not mistaken BT also uses a seration die on his hollow points to produce a very similar bullet to the hornady xtp. What you fail to realize is that bullet only made it through 2 Gatorade bottles filled with water and the very first exit hole was massive meaning it expanded and caused a preassure wave in the first 6 inches.

[DukeInFlorida]

Ok, I got a chance tonight to load up the .500 S&W Magnum bullet samples that I got from BT Sniper.

First, let me say that side by side, these look every bit as good as the Hornady XTP bullets. BT Sniper even filled a couple of them with the poly balls to give the fill look. I won't personally plan on doing that to the bullets I swage, but it shows that it can be done if you want to. The diameter of the bullets is spot on, at .5005"

BT Sniper made these bullets from 45 ACP (WCC head stamped military, with crimped primers) cases. They look amazing! He also sent me some of the messed up parts, wrinkles.. etc. However, there were only a very few of those. All of the parts I loaded were near perfect!

Shown are:
44 magnum with swaged bullet, left, .22 LR for reference, Hornady XTP bullets, BT Sniper HP's with white plastic inserts, BT Sniper HP's without the plastic inserts.





I loaded these with a FULL CASE (don't crush the donuts) of Trail Boss. I didn't have to worry about bullet weight. There is more than one bullet weight in the image. See BT Sniper's opening post for those details.

I'll try to get to shoot them and recover one in the next week or so.

Brian, start work on a die set for me. I won't need them until I get to Florida, so no hurry. But, you have me convinced that these are very do-able.

I'm saving all the small primer 45's I bump into, just for this project!

[BT Sniper]

Those look great. I spent a short amount of time making the rest of the bullets I had ready to swage. I got a new little trick that makes teh nose of the bullet look even better. Rolls the jacket in on it's self. Really completes the look of the bullet. I would bet it makes it look even more like the nose of the XTPs you have there.

Those look like mosters. Getting an apperation of the 500S&W size is tough to do with only the 500s in the pics. You should put a 22LR round next to one and take a pic for us.

I'll have a pic of the bullets I made today on this thread soon. I'll also start on a 500 set of dies for you. I'll send it in with teh rest of teh dies I will have for heat treat around Feburary. I have no doubt it will be a complete success using nothing but our standard reloading presses.

Good shooting!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here is the latest bullets I made.

Notice how I was able to roll the tip in on it's self.