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Thread: bluing tank

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Clean and degrease the barrel,Apply Ammonium chloride and distilled Water solution,stand in warm area until rusted,Boil for ten minutes in rainwater,Using 0000 Steel Wool rub off the Rust that has changed from Feric Oxide (Red) to Fero Feric Oxide (Black).Repete these operations until you have a deep black,Wash with clean Water, heat barrel and apply lubricating oil,Allow to stand for a couple of hours before wipeing off excess oil.For Browning do not boil just scald by pouring boiling water over the barrel.
    P S.Plug off the Barrel at each end before starting.
    Last edited by Col4570; 03-08-2013 at 03:20 PM. Reason: More info

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    wait why is barrel plugging needed? aren't the bluing chemicals only coming into contact with the barrel where YOU apply them? unlike a hot dip?

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    I am interested in the answer to this. I am prepping for my first bluing job, and I'd rather do it once than 3 times. I still have more questions about rust bluing, and I should start with the answer to one question than ask six at once!

  4. #24
    Boolit Bub
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    I have done some rust bluing with Mark Lees product. I've used both his express blue and the slow rust blue, both work well. Instead of plugging bores, I've coated them with varnish and let it dry, before slow rust bluing. With an express type blue, which uses the boiling hot water, you don't need to plug or varnish the bore, as the process is faster. To remove the varnish from the bore I used laquer thinner on several patches to remove it.

  5. #25
    Boolit Mold
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    Find yourself a copy of Angiers blueing. LOTS of different formulas there cold and hot.Aloha, Mark

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnoahhh View Post
    Anybody here found a way around spending the crazy amount Brown-give me all your money-ell's charges for a tank to boil a barreled action? I only need it to boil stuff in water in the course of rust bluing.
    a very inexpensive but durable tank for rust bluing can be made from a short section of aluminum rain gutter. You will need two end caps, a tube of silicone calk and a few sheet metal screws to hold the caps in place. I've been using one for many many years.

    A couple of wooden stands hold it securely enough over camp stove burners.

    I would not use this for caustic salt bluing but it is fine for rust bluing.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    I would not use this for caustic salt bluing

    I would like to add that in case anyone might think of trying to use such a tank for caustic bluing the results would be a disaster! It would not just not work it would dissolve away almost instantly as the caustic solution would attack the Aluminum violently, it would start fizzing and splattering then just collapse spilling the contents creating a catastrophe!

    I had a near miss a couple of years ago using a stainless steel pot for a small batch to blue small parts in, I noticed the solution started fizzing near the top of the pot then a couple of minutes later when I attempted to lift the pot both handles fell off causing me to drop the pot. Luckily I was prepared with rubber gloves and boots plus protective cover-alls so the solution (that had not reached full heat yet) didn't cause an injury. What had happened was that I failed to notice the rivets holding the handles to the pot were Aluminum! These simply dissolved away and allowed the handles to literally fall off and these rivets were waaaaay thicker than an Aluminum gutter.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    Lots of very good advise and timely I am having a custom 98 Mauser built and all the old gunsmiths that I know that are still working don't do bluing anymore because of the unwillingness of people to pay for the prep time needed to do the job properly.
    This last week I have been hunting for the bits and pieces for the hot tank, unlike most tanks I will have the heating tube in the tank with a burner firing into the heating tube, I have used this method of heating on large Caustic tanks and high volume salt water heaters for fish farms, very efficient it's not really needed on a little tank for bluing, but it will be a nice little project.

    Regards Trevor

  9. #29
    Boolit Mold TINCANBANDIT's Avatar
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    My tanks were built by hand, here is a blog post showing how we did it. The burners were made from iron pipe, we followed a design found online (Google is your friend here). The tanks were welded pieces of flat steel.

    http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/201...ing-tanks.html

  10. #30
    Boolit Man
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    I built all this stuff may years ago with the help of a friend that had a TIG welder. 6 tanks, 4 burners. The caustic tank is mild steel, others are 316 stainless. The two lower tanks on the stand on the left are spares.









    3/32" diameter holes two rows. High volume regulators on the tanks.


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnoahhh View Post
    Anybody here found a way around spending the crazy amount Brown-give me all your money-ell's charges for a tank to boil a barreled action? I only need it to boil stuff in water in the course of rust bluing.
    Welded custom from stainless is what the shop I worked in, we blued up to 46 inch long. Use Du-lite salts and not The B's .

  12. #32
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    Better method I came across I've used for the last few guns I've blued. Get a section of 4" pvc, long enough to put the metal in. Get a plumbing flange to fit the pvc. This will be your most expensive part, around $25. Find a pot that this will set on top of, cast iron preferred.
    Then get a piece of metal, or even wood, and drill a hole, or holes in it, to put in a wire hook to hold a barrel. Set the pot on a hotplate and bring water to a boil. Drop your small parts directly in the water to boil. Set the pvc and flange over the pot. Let boil for 25 minutes minimum. The steam in the tube does a fine job. The steam part actually takes only 20 minutes, but the boiling parts will need 25 minutes, as the water is not as hot as the steam.
    Let cool, wash off any loose residue, then steel wool or wire brush. Repeat as necessary.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  13. #33
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Better method I came across I've used for the last few guns I've blued. Get a section of 4" pvc, long enough to put the metal in. Get a plumbing flange to fit the pvc. This will be your most expensive part, around $25. Find a pot that this will set on top of, cast iron preferred.
    Then get a piece of metal, or even wood, and drill a hole, or holes in it, to put in a wire hook to hold a barrel. Set the pot on a hotplate and bring water to a boil. Drop your small parts directly in the water to boil. Set the pvc and flange over the pot. Let boil for 25 minutes minimum. The steam in the tube does a fine job. The steam part actually takes only 20 minutes, but the boiling parts will need 25 minutes, as the water is not as hot as the steam.
    Let cool, wash off any loose residue, then steel wool or wire brush. Repeat as necessary.
    You need to use foam core drain pipe.. if you use a solid PVC pipe it will bend!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BombDoc View Post
    You need to use foam core drain pipe.. if you use a solid PVC pipe it will bend!
    It did after around 12 barrels. I went to an 8" stove pipe, that sits well by itself in the bottom of my boiling pot.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kailua custom View Post
    Find yourself a copy of Angiers blueing. LOTS of different formulas there cold and hot.Aloha, Mark
    Good book but you a lot of the chemical names left me scratching my head. Essence of this and eye of newt, etc. Seriously though, when I was in school, we were given a cheat sheet that translated the names of ingredients mentioned in the book to the more common modern equivalents.

    For anyone that may be interested, I have used the Neidner's slow rust bluing formula and it works very well. Our college chemistry lab would mix a gallon of it at a time for us. Much cheaper than commercial rust bluing solutions.

    I don't have the ingredients handy, but a Google search turned up this:
    https://www.finishing.com/136/81.shtml
    Last edited by John 242; 09-05-2020 at 08:56 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
    wait why is barrel plugging needed? aren't the bluing chemicals only coming into contact with the barrel where YOU apply them? unlike a hot dip?
    Don't know if your question was answered, as it was asked years ago, but for anyone else reading this, the rust bluing acids will pit the bore.

    Conventional wisdom is that plugging the bore prevents rust bluing acids from accidentally entering the barrel, which could/would result in pitting in the rifling or chamber. The course rust layer created by rust bluing acids is not considered to be desirable on the inside of a barrel.

    Caustic salts create a very fine layer of oxidation and is not detrimental to the barrel in any way. This is why you can polish a barrel to 1000-grit, caustic blue it, and when your done you still have a 1000-grit polished barrel, but black. Rust bluing, in my limited experience, leaves a more of a matte surface finish although a carding wheel will burnish the metal somewhat.
    Last edited by John 242; 09-05-2020 at 08:50 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stockcarver View Post
    I built all this stuff may years ago with the help of a friend that had a TIG welder. 6 tanks, 4 burners. The caustic tank is mild steel, others are 316 stainless. The two lower tanks on the stand on the left are spares.
    I use a mild steel tank for caustic salts and a stainless tank and distilled water for rust bluing, as well.

    I was told/taught that a stainless tank is preferable for rust bluing for reasons I cannot recall at this time.

    I have been told that stainless tanks should not be used with caustic salts, due to the nickel and chrome in the stainless. I can neither confirm nor deny the validity of this.

    If someone could explain the logic behind using mild steel for caustic and stainless for rust bluing, I would be thankful for the enlightenment.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by John 242 View Post
    Don't know if your question was answered, as it was asked years ago, but for anyone else reading this, the rust bluing acids will pit the bore.

    Conventional wisdom is that plugging the bore prevents rust bluing acids from accidentally entering the barrel, which could/would result in pitting in the rifling or chamber. The course rust layer created by rust bluing acids is not considered to be desirable on the inside of a barrel.

    Caustic salts create a very fine layer of oxidation and is not detrimental to the barrel in any way. This is why you can polish a barrel to 1000-grit, caustic blue it, and when your done you still have a 1000-grit polished barrel, but black. Rust bluing, in my limited experience, leaves a more of a matte surface finish although a carding wheel will burnish the metal somewhat.
    I never go past 320, and get excellent results. If you are getting a matt finish, you are letting the chemical work on the steel too long. You just want the faintest of discoloration to get a high blue. I have not had a problem with rust in a bore.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I never go past 320, and get excellent results. If you are getting a matt finish, you are letting the chemical work on the steel too long. You just want the faintest of discoloration to get a high blue. I have not had a problem with rust in a bore.
    Thanks for the response. I'll have to shorten the time up and not let it go for so long. I'd like to see if I can get more luster. I usually stop at 320 as well.
    Matte probably wasn't the best way to describe the finish, but I'm struggling to find the right words... how about not shiny?

    I've heard some guys say that they've gotten high luster finishes when rust bluing. I consider a high luster finish to be one in which you can see yourself in it. I don't know how that's possible with rust bluing. I've found highly polished surfaces don't rust well, and when they do rust, the polished surface is greatly muted.

    Insofar as plugging the barrel, I'm starting to think it's unnecessary, if a person is careful when applying the solution. Still, old habits die hard. Hearing that you don't plug your barrels leaves me wondering if it's really that necessary for slow rust bluing. Seems to me it would be a good idea to plug the barrel and chamber when fume bluing. Any thoughts on that?
    Last edited by John 242; 09-06-2020 at 01:16 PM.

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
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    So ! now that I have my metal blued ( cold blue ) to the way I want it ,,what do we use as a protective coating ,, besides oil.

    coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

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