RCBS Rockchuckers having Red Chinese castings?

[UNIQUEDOT]

My Rockchucker is from the 80s. I use it for all sorts of stuff and whenever I've had a broken part or decapping pin or.....RCBS has replaed it free and right away. I would say the RCBS, Hornady and Dillon all understand customer service. Now if some of the others would just step up to the plate....

No doubt that rcbs has excellent CS when it comes to defective or broken parts as does Dillon, but Lyman is the only company that i have received poor customer service from. This of course was a couple of decades ago and things may have changed. I do admit that i have more Lyman stuff on my bench than i do rcbs though.

I have heard that Hornady leaves their customers hanging when it comes to discontinued stuff, but no personal experience with them except defective bullets which they promptly replaced. Lee precisions customer service is top notch nowadays as well. My beef with rcbs is the fact that they have lied about castings coming from China and it has nothing to do with quality.

[Arnie]

Speaking of Hornady.I bought 200 45/70 cases from Grafs and they were real short .Should have been 2.100 long and they were 2.035 long .I finally got hold of some one by email at Hornady and they had me call a number to speak with there tech dept . I have sent them back and so far the only thing i have heard is that they recieved the package .He said on the phone that he thought some one screwed up and trimmed the bulk brass to the Leverelution dimensions . I have also bought empty leverlution 45/70 brass on ebay and those cases are short and were made they way on poupose but they are also very thin walled like Winchester brass and this bulk brass was heavy like Remington brass . If they load that heavier brass with the same smokeless powder as they do the thinner stuff they will have pressure problems ? Arnie

[omgb]

Never email Hornady, always call. You get instant responses. As to the thin brass, it'll take the pressure but it won't last through as many loadings.

[Sonnypie]

My 1980's vintage RCBS has a Chevy 235 CID 6 cylinder engine number stamped in the cast iron....

And it's green, not red.

[dillonhelp]

All Dillon castings are poured in the USA. All machining, powder-coating, carbide casting and polishing, etc are done in the USA. No idea where the metal comes from; I don't believe any aluminum (bauxite) is mined in the US. Zinc and iron are, but we don't track where the raw metal comes from, only the consistancy of the alloy itself. Our parts are injection-molded, not sandcast, except for the iron castings on the Super 1050 and 50BMG loaders.

[omgb]

Guys, do we really want to pick apart companies like RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Dillon, Bonanza, Redding or any other of the leading reloading companies? The amount of Chicom stuff in our stores is mind boggleing. Price does make a difference to some guys, hence the wide support for Lee products. Others, less price sensitive prefer a higher degree of finish and a certain amount of over-engineering and are willing to pay for it. Manufacturers are very sensitive to this and sometimes will go over seas for basic manufacturing steps such as castings in an effort to maintain quality while still hitting the right "price point". You do know that Ford, GM and Chrysler all farm out manufacturing to Mexico and other places right? It has been a common practice for years dating back to the late 60s with some automakers.

All of this has been in direct response to cost challenges. Niether China nor Mexico have much in the way of invironmental restrictions. Just think of what a casting or plating company discharges on a daily basis. To do it clean and green costs $$$$$ and those costs are passed on to the consumer.

No doubt, one of the reasons Dillon products cost as much as they do is that they are all USA made and they have such a cradle to grave warranty. All of that has to be paid by somebody and in this case, it's you and I.

I believe all of these companies are trying to find the right way to keep costs down and quality up. If one fails to do both, you go the way of Herters, Lachmiller or gulp.....Remarlin.

If RCBS tells me they don't farm out their castings to China I will tend to believe them. They make good stuff that's affordable and they stand by it. That's all I ask.

If you really feel strongly about buying only American, then ask the companies directly and specifically where their stuff is made. Dillon has spoken up in a previous post. RCBS has commented recently too. Lee tells us up front in every ad. I fail to see any attempt to cover up outsourcing here. So, that's my $.02.
R Talley

[UNIQUEDOT]

No idea where the metal comes from.

Earth! mined by earthlings for earthlings. :

[UNIQUEDOT]

Guys, do we really want to pick apart companies like RCBS

No, not really. Their stuff is of the highest quality regardless of where it originates, but then again honesty is essential.

You do know that Ford, GM and Chrysler all farm out manufacturing to Mexico and other places right? It has been a common practice for years dating back to the late 60s with some automakers.

of course, afterall there is a sticker on every part manufactured abroad.

All of this has been in direct response to cost challenges. Niether China nor Mexico have much in the way of invironmental restrictions. Just think of what a casting or plating company discharges on a daily basis. To do it clean and green costs $$$$$ and those costs are passed on to the consumer.

Is it better that there is a consumer... someone whom gets up in the morning , goes to work, earns a decent green wage and can afford to buy what he pleases? if the stuff is made in China or Mexico the Americans that have no job due to the fact cannot consume anything and therefore the economy suffers for all.


I believe all of these companies are trying to find the right way to keep costs down and quality up. If one fails to do both, you go the way of Herters.

I don't know about the others, but keeping costs down had nothing to do with Herter's demise.

If RCBS tells me they don't farm out their castings to China I will tend to believe them.



Did you skip over post #40? as i said before they may be poured in America now, but they did pour them in China in the past. If they would have stated the facts rather than attempting to deceive customers...i would have no gripes whatsoever.

.....

[Lloyd Smale]

All i will say to this is i had one rock chucker for about 30 years till i lost it in the big fire and it took alot of abuse through the years and still worked as new. When I had the fire both dillon and rcbs stepped up and gave me free presses because of my loss. Dillon gave me a 550 and rcbs a new rock chucker and alothough i dont use a single stage near as much as i used to ive used it quite a bit in the last couple years and its every bit the press the first one was. I probably use my hornady a bit more because i like the lock and load bushings but have to say the rcbs seems a bit stouter and one of these days im going to buy the parts to convert it to load a load bushings too.

[omgb]

I just ordered a back issue of Handloader and will post excerpts when it arrives.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I have heard that Hornady leaves their customers hanging when it comes to discontinued stuff, but no personal experience with them except defective bullets which they promptly replaced.

I have personal experience with this and yes, they do tend to leave them hanging. Their warm/cold customer service over the last decade finally made me decide to sell my Hornady LnL (pre-7000 serial number) and get an RCBS Pro 2000 auto advance to replace it.

[GabbyM]

Sorry to say I’ve machined quite a bit of cast iron from the PRC. It was good quality and replaced the very large castings we were receiving from Brazil which had warping issues. You’d be in error to assume Chinese industry can’t make good parts whenever they wish or when the customer orders it. That’s the most scary part of it.

[Kraschenbirn]

Oops...posted to wrong thread

[MtGun44]

When RCBS has been making fabulous quality presses and tools for many decades and
everyone agrees that they are extremely generous on their warranty work, why in the world
are so many ready to disbelieve them when they say they have always used American
castings? Personally, I find this "they must be worthless liars" attitude a bit disgusting
from folks that on one hand love their "old" RCBS stuff, have ZERO facts in the case but
are willing to say nasty things about them and assume that they are lying about their
sources.

I like RCBS equipment, have never gotten anything from them that I thought was defective
or inferior and I will start from the point of view of assuming that they are still an honest
company, trying their best to meet customer demands with high quality tools until I see
otherwise with my own eyes. I have zero connection to RCBS except to be a customer
that has been satisfied since the wife bought my first Rock Chucker back in about 1976
for Christmas. Still have it, still works fine but doesn't get as much use as the turrets and
progressives these days.

Bill

[Naphtali]

Sorry to say I’ve machined quite a bit of cast iron from the PRC. It was good quality and replaced the very large castings we were receiving from Brazil which had warping issues. You’d be in error to assume Chinese industry can’t make good parts whenever they wish or when the customer orders it. That’s the most scary part of it.

Gabby:

You have [partially] misinterpreted the reason for my query. I prefer to reward friendship and penalize enmity, to avoid buying where slave labor is the rule rather than the exception, to buy from places where American and "Western" workers would not be horrified by working conditions.

For years I have followed my preference. While it requires effort to do this, I also make my preference known to retailers and manufacturers whom I patronize. Are there Red Chinese products I buy? Of course - when I have no options available AND when I cannot work around having no options.

Is my preference exclusive to Red Chinese products? No. I have similar problems with goods from several countries where Islam is the state religion. While I'm a pretty good hater/grudge carrier, I can't hate everybody. So I pick places that offend me most and excise them from my existence as best I can.

Hope this clarifies things.

[jcwit]

You have [partially] misinterpreted the reason for my query. I prefer to reward friendship and penalize enmity, to avoid buying where slave labor is the rule rather than the exception, to buy from places where American and "Western" workers would not be horrified by working conditions.

Probably not tha U.S. workers would not be willing to do the work but that the EPA and OSHA has put regs on the casting industry to make it just about impossible to continue manufacturing.

Be careful who you blame!

Plus I see the reference to slave labor whenever chinese products are brought up. I seriously doubt all manufacturing in china is done by slave labor, otherwise their ownership of private vehicules would not be going sky-hi as it is.

[Jammer Six]

I prefer equipment manufactured overseas.

When I ran my business, (a general contracting company) virtually all of our heavy or capital equipment came from overseas.

Equipment manufactured overseas was as accurate, as well built, and as durable as any American made equipment, and the cost was far, far less than American made. In many cases, innovations came from overseas. This is still the case.

The difference it made, for us, was the difference between do-able and a pipe dream. It was a difference that generated American jobs.

Steel manufactured in Brazil and sold by Springfield Armory is every bit as valuable as anything made by Colt.

The precision measurement market is dominated by names from the Far East, and JET and Grizzly have taken Delta's lunch money by force and bought rice with it.

And finally, after 30 years in that business, it is my absolute opinion that stiff, bare knuckled, razor edged competition, on an uneven, unfair playing field, that generates the highest possible strategic threat is both the finest compliment and the best thing that can happen to American industry.

Grow the teeth, sharpen the claw. Do it faster, better, with less, for less, in the dark, in the rain, earlier in the day with a nicer smile. Or go home.

American ingenuity and drive are still very much alive. There are innovators with long, sharp teeth right here on this board. Both Corbin brothers need to take notice, and then they need to start waking up earlier in the morning.

That's good for me, that's good for you, whether the Corbin brothers figure it out or not. Individual players, nationalities, color, creed, race or sex don't matter.

I'll continue to look for the best value, from all corners of the globe.

Carry on.

[UNIQUEDOT]

everyone agrees that they are extremely generous on their warranty work, why in the world
are so many ready to disbelieve them when they say they have always used American
castings? Personally, I find this "they must be worthless liars" attitude a bit disgusting
from folks that on one hand love their "old" RCBS stuff, have ZERO facts in the case but
are willing to say nasty things about them and assume that they are lying about their
sources.

Bill

Bill, is it not considered fact when the box states that the casting is from China, but a rep for the company insists that "they have always been cast in America"? I will continue to buy and use RCBS products, but that doesn't mean that i shouldn't voice my disgust with their obvious deception.

I would never want my opinions to cause the downfall of great companies such as RCBS and therefore would never tell anyone not to purchase their products except in the case of the press in question, but only because there are better options. I do believe that they are likely cast in the states now as the shelf price jumped fifty bucks in a weeks time at a local store a year or two ago. In reality it would take a tremendous amount of negativity before such a company would even realize their was a problem.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I make it an effort to buy American Made.

As far as the person who said they buy from all over the world; when your job is exported or you are replaced by someone on a guest worker visa your opinion may change. The increasing number of jobs leaving the country will lead, at some point in time, to a tipping point. That is when the economy will tip over and slide into the ocean. America will not do well as a third world country, although the experiment with socialism points us that way.

Rich

[kelbro]

As someone that spends 3-4 months a year in various Chinese factories, let me assure you that slave labor is rare. About the only slave labor is at 'state-owned' companies that use prison labor which I'm not totally opposed to .

I have been setting factories up over there for many years and the quality is as good as the company spec'ing or contracting it demands or accepts.

Most would be VERY surprised at the names and number of top American and European companies that manufacture over there. They build to a point where they can import their product into the US/EU/UK, polish it a little, slap a coat of paint on and still claim MADE IN USA. I will not name names since I have to sign non-disclosures and I'm not quite ready to retire yet