Rifle Bullets and Gas Checks?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I have acquired a Gewehr 88 in 7.92x57J.

It takes 0.318" bullets.

Folks keep urging me to try cast bullets in it. I've resisted this because I like to use what a particular firearm was designed for -- in this case, jacketed. (If I were shooting .45-70, I doubt it would see anything but cast!).

Now, realistically, the 0.318" bullets come at a custom price and I'd like to shoot it more.

I've zeroed it for a 150 grain spitzer at about 2500fps. This is not as easy to zero as my Mosin-Nagant as I've not made up a finely adjustable sight for it, but used a tall front sight from Brownell's.

That means a cast load moving fairly fast to hit the same point of aim -- or close to it, at least on elevation.

That means gas checks.

I know nothing about gas checks.

I cast for the .45acp and for my muzzleloaders. I use my own dry lube on the .45 bullets and nothing on the lead round balls (they are patched).

This means I tend to like the Lee tumble lube bullets when dealing with conicals, and I do not resize. They drop out the right size most times and the ones that don't just go back into the pot.

So, this all relates to gas checks for this reason: I don't know how to put them on! Everything I read says to put them on with a lubrisizer.

How fast can I push a 150 to 170 grain gas-checked bullet?

I'd like to make this come together, but I don't want to tap in the old sight (put up in storage should I ever sell this thing) each time I want to change from jacketed to lead bullets!

Bottom line: How fast can I push a gas-checked bullet, and do I need special equipment to put the gas checks on?

Thanks,

Josh

[sqlbullet]

To apply the gas checks on the cheap...

Order a Lee push-through sizing die in the size you need. It will crimp the gas checks just fine.

As far as how fast, you gun will have to tell you. I load a 200 gr gas checked in my Garand, and push it about 2100-2200 without any issues at all. My 300 Win Mag likes that bullet too, at about 2400 fps.

If you fit is good, and your lube is good, no reason you can't duplicate jacketed velocities.

I would suggest a different lube. Since you don't want to really invest in a bunch of equipment just to experiment, I would suggest either pan lubing or hand lubing. This will take a little extra time, but I think you will like the results. (It will be a little messy).

Good luck!

[Sonnypie]

Hi Josh,
I know nothing about your rifle or caliber.
I'm a 30-06 fan.
But I do know a bit about gas checks, as I gas check my boolits. (only 2 different sizes, but that is what I want to shoot.)
There are two schools of thought around here:
Pat Marlins Gas Check Maker
And the Freechex system (II and III)
There is also Corbin, and of course the commercial checks, like Hornady, Gator, etc.

But your .318 caliber requirement may be a problem. I see none that size, so custom made might be required to make your own checks.

As well as a sizing system. I chose Lee for my shop. It has the advantage (in my opinion) of push-through sizing, pushing the bullet as it will be pushed in the barrel, nose first.
That means the base of the bullet is the flat (or flatter as in the case of a boat tail design, which I don't believe would be checked anyway), so no elaborate or boolit design specific top punch is needed.

Many fellows do not size their boolits. They rely on the powder and firearm to size the slug. I DO NOT subscribe to this idea because to me, just sizing the boolits I cast, I have found enough discrepancies to tell me there would be considerable differences in chamber pressures. And my rifle is not a sizing die. I want consistency in my ammunition. So I size what I cast.

The Lee push-through sizing also makes setting Gas Checks consistent and correct in that it pushes the check firmly against the base of the boolit as it and the check are sized, and the check crimped to the base, together.
As long as the material the check is punched from fits within the confines of the check making devices design. Different Gas Check making systems have different comfort zones they run in.
Some folks think that pushing the boolits through the Lee sizer bottom first works well for them. I do not. I want the push ram shoving that check tight to boolit base as the die crimps it to the sides of the boolit base.
Plus I try and not deform the boolits nose (ogive).

You might need to modify, or have custom made, the dies and molds for your particular needs.
I recently modified my sizing die to give me a slightly larger boolit than stock. One Lee does not offer, but is customized to my rifles slugged bore size.

[turbo1889]

I once owned a 0.318" (jacketed) bullet diameter 8mm Mauser. It was one of the "washer ring action" guns Model #88 (if memory serves me) the one with the tube feed magazine under the barrel.

I found that using a 0.320" diameter cast lead boolit was what worked for me since that was the diameter of the throat on that gun. I used and old Ideal 0.323" diameter boolit and used a push through Lee type sizer to take them down to 0.320" diameter gas check and all using standard 8-mm gas checks seated and crimped while pushing them through. I tumble lubed them after pushing them through the sizer die and just used the tip of my finger dipped in a little bit of the Lee mule snot to wipe a little bit of lube on the bottom of the push through die every few boolits to keep the die lubed since I didn't lube the boolits before I sized them.

Your mileage may vary but that was what I did and it worked for me.

[PatMarlin]

I just picked up an M1891 Argentine that looks to have a groove diameter of .318. I have Checkmaker™ dies in 32/8mm, but if they don't work I will design a real Fat-30 in between.

My 30 cal optional male die works for shanks up to about .290. I can also experiment with an optional male die for the 32/8mm for a smaller shank. Vee have vays to make heir werk.

[beemer]

This is taking off in another direction but it might be interesting. Have you thought about paper patching .308 jacketed bullets up to .318. If it worked bullets would be cheeper than custom ones and very little cash to get started. I have not patched J bullets but have seen it mentioned in the PP section. Just a thought but sometimes that gets me in trouble.

Dave