.22 lr bpcr !!

[bigted]

you guys are unreal!!! ive been overlooking this thread for awhile now and dang if i didnt stop in and read the whole thing! thanks alot for the "another" idea to fool with.

this just looks like real fun...i fondly remember my first single-shot winchester .22 and all the huge game i felled with it...[all seems like they had blue feathers tho]...what great memories.

maybe its be time to re-visit my early starting point and pick-up a good 22 for foolin with.

[218bee]

Great post....reloading "special projects" is my main enjoyment to get away from everyday life.
I have a few questions and please excuse me if they have previously been answered in above posts...gettin old.
I assume your alloy is very soft?? any idea 30-1, 20-1 etc?
Using your dipper to fill cases to top? and then seating boolit provides enough powder compression?
Why a barrel liner? Is it for accuracy sake for match shooting or another reason?
I HAVE to give this a try.
If anyone comes across a batch of primed cases please let us know...ME FIRST!
Very cool idea
OH one more question...Is the Lyman die cast a "heeled boolit" as it looks like the MOS does?

[Baja_Traveler]

218Bee - To answer your questions -

I'm using the same alloy that works well for my 30-30 silhouette boolits. It is a BHN of 20.9 - much harder than your off the shelf .22 ammo. In talking with my gunsmith on friday when I was picking up a rifle, he seems to think the combination of bullet hardness and the .225 size is the reason for the great accuracy in my 39a.

I drop 15 pounds of isotope lead in the pot followed by 2 pounds of Lynotype and a touch of tin for good fillout. All my other black powder loads are straight isotope lead, which is right around 20-1 for the stuff I have.

I use the powder dipper to dump a settled charge in the funnel, then tap on the bench to re-settle the load even with the case mouth. Then the bullet compresses it from there. It's just like loading the 45-70 - you can hear that nice crunch sound when the bullet is seated home.

The barrel liner fits in my 45-70 Sharps. It is match reamed and is very accurate. Using the MVA sights makes for a very nice .22 rifle for long range. No reason I cant use my 39a for the match, but given the choice I'll take those expensive MVA sights every time...

Can't answer for the Lyman mould, as I have never used or seen it.

[John Boy]

Traveler, let me jump in if I may ...
* Charging: No muss and fast method... Lee Perfect Powder Measure because it drops 4.5gr more consistently and accurately that all of my other chargers, including the B&M. OK, cut the web off a 223. Put the 22 case into the mouth of the 223 with the web in the charger drop tube. Pull the handle - done with no spilling powder
* Then set the charged cases into a loading tray drilled out using a scrap of Trex decking or a Win 209 primer tray
* Yes, the Lyman 225438 is heeled - 0.215 x 0.125. It is 0.035 too long seated at the heel to be magazine fed reloads. OAL - 0.520 and 46grs @1:30 alloy

If anyone comes across a batch of primed cases please let us know...ME FIRST!

Wanna be the Honcho for the 500,000 empty primed cases import by ArmsCor from Aquila?

[Baja_Traveler]

JohnBoy - I think I'll have to adopt your idea of charging cases, as I intend on making alot more of these after todays shoot!

Today was our long range silhouette shoot - these are 1/3 size targets at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards. Bummer is I couldn't use my new Crossno liner. I was concerned of the loose fit before today, but today confirmed that because of the 10 thousandths sloppy fit, it sends rounds all over the place in a 6" diameter - the chickens are not much bigger than an old 50 cent piece, so this just would not do, so out came the 39a.

We started on Turkeys at 150 yards - small, tall and skinny and I didn't do too well as I was still working on finetuning the windage adjustments - only got 4. Rams did a bit better at 200 yards - got 6, and those I missed were very close misses, usually just over the back. Rams are 6" high by 8" long - had those been rabbits sitting out there, they all would have been dead. Chickens - try to hit a 50 cent piece offhand at 50 yards - not easy, but I got 5. Misses were all just low into the rail, and the 5 I hit were smacked by the 43 grain boolit and flung half way up the berm. These little pills are really hard hitting! Finished out on the pigs at 100 yards, and did really well there - they are the same size as the rams and twice as close. Missed the very first one between the legs, but dead centered all the rest.

I shot 65 rounds at practice getting sight settings, then 60 rounds in the match - 20 sighters, and 40 for score for a total of 120 rounds through the 39a (5 rounds through the liner before I retired it) No patching, blowtubing or cleaning of any kind was done, and the group that was on those 100 yard pigs was impressive.

I think the cure for the ill fitting Crossno liner is to turn an O ring groove in the delrin end cap so a lubed up O ring will seat itself in the rifling nice and tight, Why It doesn't come from Crossno like that I have no idea, but I will be making a phone call this week.

[John Boy]

I shot 65 rounds at practice getting sight settings, then 60 rounds in the match - 20 sighters, and 40 for score for a total of 120 rounds through the 39a (5 rounds through the liner before I retired it) No patching, blowtubing or cleaning of any kind was done, and the group that was on those 100 yard pigs was impressive.

Traveler, a shot string of these numbers is the largest shot so far by John & myself. ALL 3 of us have had no accuracy degradation with long shot strings. Who would have thought that these little critters won't foul out the bore. I would have bet a $20 that 5 rounds would have been the max before a good blow or a wet patch would be needed.

Congratulations on your match score, especially having to fiddling with the settings on your Marlin. Betcha the bench next to you went ... 'What the frig are you shooting?' There isn't a Schuetzen gallery - silhouette or target shooter alive today that has experienced the smell of sulfurous smoke at a match in nearly a century. And the nice thing, there isn't a word in the NRA rules that says we can't shoot them BP rounds

I've been casting the Lymans soft ... and you are casting hard with accuracy and good foul control. Guess I'll have to go to church with your alloy. John sent me some heads off the old UMC rounds and they were dead soft. He will be interested in your alloy also. What is sad is that empty primed cases are not available which would induce more folks to load these 22's also. Was told by Dave Davidson of CH4D that he was going to make a run of 22LR seating dies & shell holders in 4 - 6 months. Hope this pans out because it would be one less tool needed to make the rounds quickly

PS: The Mos mold should be in my hands the 1st of the week. David said by this Saturday ... but Oh Well!

[Baja_Traveler]

I'm guessing W44WCF didn't get to do any testing this weekend with all the weather back there.

I used your .223 idea, and my RCBS Uniflow drops a nice consistent 4.5 grains of 4f. Not using a dipper will really speed assembly up. I like the 209 primer tray idea also - I found the pockets are tapered on my Winchester trays, so the .22s don't sit flat. I took a 9/32 router bit and chucked it in the drill press to take the taper out of the pockets.
Lubed up 100 more tonight, and have them stacked nicely in a large rifle primer tray ready for loading later this week.

[ss40_70]

i sure wish someone would hide this thread where i cant find it , ive been wanting a .22 liner for a long time and you guys are having way to much fun with this , one thing i am wondering about , any thoughts on velocity compared to standerd .22's

[Jon K]

Baja,

Not to nit-pick...but the targets at Pala re 2/5 size.
Measured and checked all the animals to make sure the scale was consistant thru the course...did this a couple of months ago.

BTW...Good shootin today...you shoulda took pics of the hits to post here.

Jon

[218bee]

Thats really good shooting. Thanks for answering my questions..I saw the Lyman takes a gas check so without it ...it is a "heeled" boolit. I am going to contact David Mos for one of his moulds though. This sounds like a good winter project for me. I am suprised about the limited fouling...but am delighted also to not have to stop and clean...I guess such a small charge of black maybe burns more complete with whatever priming coumpound is used than trying to light 70grs or so.
Very Very cool thread.....thanks for the detailed info.

[Baja_Traveler]

Jon - thanks for the correction on target size. Do you think you can bring out your chrono to next weekends BPCR match? I'll bring the 39a out and see how fast these things are flying - judging from yesterdays sight settings they are not too far off from the aguila.

[John Boy]

Errata Information:

ss40_70 ... Velocity of 40gr smokeless rounds vary. Here is a good comparison of different brands - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4qcixPrzsw
For the BP rounds ...
w44wcf
45gr Lyman 225438 ... 39A, 4.5 grs of SWISS Null B b.p. ignited, propelling the SPG lubed bullet to 1,130 f.p.s.
John Boy
* Aquila 22LR empty primed cases
* 4.2gr old DuPont FFFFg, sieved to 50 mesh
* Lyman 225438 - 46grs - SPG lube
Average Velocity - 915.3 fps
Standard Deviation - 44.8

* Lyman 225438 - 46grs - SPG lube
* 4.2gr Swiss Null-B
AVG - 953 fps
SD - 11.1

218bee ... If you want the David Mos mold, you had better call him quickly, like yesterday @ 479 ... 234 ... 7827 and ask for the KT22LR mold. He is cutting over to making some custom rifles he designed and is going to stop taking orders for molds in the interim

Traveler: I looked at the Win 209 primer trays that I have. The bottoms where the primers fit in are perfectly flat. The trays are thin mould blown black plastic that holds 100 primers. The other tray that I really like is a scrap piece of Trex, 50 drilled holes with a 1/4" Forstner bit - half the height of the case.

John did another project during the week and got home in time to miss the snow storm ... a custom 44-40 Accurate bullet that he tested on the pigs with black powder ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/in...p?topic=8921.0 He also loaded up some 38 Spl's with BP for the match at Ridgway and did really well ...
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/in...p?topic=8914.0
Needless to say, he has been busy testing BP rounds

Until I get the Mos 22 mold, my project that I just completed was prepping 100 old Connecticut Cartridge Co 11.15x58R (43 Spanish) cases for my Argentine RRB. Nice to have brass with the correct head stamp but had to ID ream all the cases to chamber in the rifle. Have some loaded with 75gr FFg KIK (the 2010 lot) loaded for testing. When the Mos 22 bullets are cast, the next test will be shooting them with 4.5gr of the 2010 lot of KIK that I will sieve FFg powder, hopefully to get some 40 or 50 mesh grains

[tacklebury]

Have you guys tried something like this for a dispenser. Drops 4 gr each time. I'm looking at one of these for my .22 Muzzle loader.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...Num=FLASK-PP-4

[John Boy]

tacklebury, don't believe I would use the flint primer charger. The primary reason is
* 4.5gr powder charge needed
* Accuracy of regular charger needed to achieve good Avg fps and SD's

And for the Good of the Order ...

My Mos Mold Arrived Today!

[6.5 mike]

Ya'll are killing me with this stuff. Hummm I do have a stevens favorite I picked up at the last show I went to. Needs some TLC & stocked to fit me but the takedown bbl would be easier to clean, maybe a baby BP scheutzen bench gun.

[John Boy]

Mike, I tested these BP rounds with my Favorite. It has a vernier and a Beech fore sight. Be for warned, the pin head on the Beech is a monster and accuracy will suffer. Go with globe and cross hairs for better accuracy

I drop 15 pounds of isotope lead in the pot followed by 2 pounds of Linotype and a touch of tin for good fill-out.

Traveler, I calculated the Bhn for your alloy mix.
* 15# isotope lead (per Muddy Creek Sam, it's Bhn 10 - 10.5)
* 02# Linotype (Bhn 22)
* 0.5# Tin (Bhn 7)
This alloy mix calculates to Bhn 13.23. Using 1/4# of Sn has a Bhn of 12.99

So, instead of grubbing 5 lbs of lino from my friend, the 1st Mos casting session is going have in the pot - clip on WW that are aged over 5 years having a Bhn 13.5. Then the next session, a batch of 3 parts Lyman #2 and 7 parts pure lead. Why? Because it has been tested and an article written on the test in the BPC News ... that the ogive doesn't slump as much as a Pb:Sn alloy due to the antimony crystalline structure

[6.5 mike]

John, I was thinking more along the lines of a period correct scope, I don't match shoot so can play by my rules, lol. I like the way bearman 56's 25 hornet looks. Just think it would be a riot to set up when the 22 nazis are trying to shoot, then touch off a BP 22. PP'ing the boolit would be even more fun, let them try to figure that out.

[tacklebury]

tacklebury, don't believe I would use the flint primer charger. The primary reason is
* 4.5gr powder charge needed
* Accuracy of regular charger needed to achieve good Avg fps and SD's

And for the Good of the Order ...

My Mos Mold Arrived Today!

True for your target level shooting accuracy may not be exacting enough. I know you can modify the pin size to get it to 4.5 instead of 4. Just looked convenient with the little funnel already built in. I'm probably going to be trying one with the .22 muzzle loader because I'm not doing bench accuracy anyway. Just need minute of squirrel.

[w30wcf]

baja_traveler,
Nice shooting on the 200 meter .22 BPCR course! Neat!

As far as measuring / dispensing powder I use a Lyman 55 and RCBS Uniflow for production ammo and a B&M for lower volume test rounds.

I use .17 caliber funnel under the measure as the pic shows and find that works very well.


TESTING
I did get a chance to shoot a few groups with the KT22LR bullets from the Mos mold.
I used 4.2 grs of SWISS Null B and after the 1st shot (fouling round) the next 9 grouped into 1 1/4" at 50 yards from my 39A. Alloy was 11 bhn & lube was SPG.

I plan to do more testing of the KT22LR bullet including Swiss 4F, 3F and possibly KIK 3F before winter sets in.


VELOCITIES
Original U.M.C. 40 gr .22 b.p. rounds - 1,009 f.p.s. average
UMC 40 gr bullets / 4.5 Swiss 4F - 1,070 f.p.s. average
UMC 40 gr bullets / 5.0 Swiss 4F - 1,102 f.p.s. average
UMC 40 gr bullets / 5.0 Swiss 3F - 1,020 f.p.s. average

w30wcf

[Baja_Traveler]

After todays BPCR shoot at Pala we set up the chronograph to see how fast my BP rounds are going out of my 39a. I shot 5 fouling shots at the pig silhouette sighter, then 5 shots through the chrono. The 5 shots confirmed the post above and averaged 1, 069 fps (and of course all 10 shots dead centered the pigs impressing everyone in attendance with the accuracy of these rounds)
I have a whole slew of people at the range interested in loading these up. I told all of them that maybe if all of us call The Hunting Shack and ask about availability, they will realize that there is a demand and start carrying them again. Something to think about...