Marlin 336 in 30-30 for Silouette Competition

[Super 88]

I have the above that was given to me so I could compete in the Cowboy lever action Silouette. You have to have iron sights. The targets are at 50, 100,150 and 200 yards. I have never reloaded cast bullets other than in several handguns. Is there a cast boolit load that does not require gas checks that would be accurate out to 200 yards and have sufficient energy to knock down the rams. I know I can use regular jacketed bullets but am trying to do this on the cheap as it is only one of several shooting disciplines that I participate in and would have had to wait if the rifle had not been given to me. Another question, can I get away with something along the lines of a Williams or Lyman receiver sight at that type of yardage or should I be considering a Marble's or Lyman tang sight? I know, a lot of questions but I can't afford to do it the old way, just buying things until I find something that works, I have to play it smarter(read-less fun), this time. Thanks and I welcome any and all input. By the way, the rifle does have the Micro-groove system in case that makes a difference. I guess what I'm looking for is a well thought out load that meets the above requirements and for which I can buy the bullets straight from the supplier and not have to add gas checks, special lubes, re-size etc. Not lazy, just don't have the time to spread myself too thin.

[A pause for the COZ]

I cant say about 200 yards. But I am running a 170gr .310 Boolit ahead of 9 gr TrailBoss. With a scope and supported I get 3 touching at 50 yards and 3 inside a quarter at 100 yards.
I find in my gun when I push the cast faster than 1500 fps the micro groves dont catch and I cant get 3 on a papper plate at 50 yards. I havent checked to see how fast these are going but I suspect 800 fps or so.
One of these days I will play around to find a load that runs good at 1200 fps but for now I am having too mch fun with this load.

[Marlin Junky]

I have the above that was given to me so I could compete in the Cowboy lever action Silouette. You have to have iron sights. The targets are at 50, 100,150 and 200 yards. I have never reloaded cast bullets other than in several handguns. Is there a cast boolit load that does not require gas checks that would be accurate out to 200 yards and have sufficient energy to knock down the rams. I know I can use regular jacketed bullets but am trying to do this on the cheap as it is only one of several shooting disciplines that I participate in and would have had to wait if the rifle had not been given to me. Another question, can I get away with something along the lines of a Williams or Lyman receiver sight at that type of yardage or should I be considering a Marble's or Lyman tang sight? I know, a lot of questions but I can't afford to do it the old way, just buying things until I find something that works, I have to play it smarter(read-less fun), this time. Thanks and I welcome any and all input. By the way, the rifle does have the Micro-groove system in case that makes a difference. I guess what I'm looking for is a well thought out load that meets the above requirements and for which I can buy the bullets straight from the supplier and not have to add gas checks, special lubes, re-size etc. Not lazy, just don't have the time to spread myself too thin.

For the price of admission to one of those events you can buy a box of .30 Hornady gas checks.

I use RCBS 30-180-FN for all the targets and two loads... one for the near three targets and one for the sheep.

I use a Williams FP with a 1/16" aperture and a Lyman 17A with a post insert for all the targets. Second time out, I placed first in my class but I was shooting a 24" rifle, not a carbine.

MJ

[quilbilly]

Mostly I shoot my 30-30 with 160 gr boolits with the gas checks at an MV of about 1550. It shoots quite nicely out to 200 yards and well beyond with practice. A plain base boolit of the right alloy with a nice fit to the barrel should easily get to 1400 fps or even more which should be more than adequate at those 200 yard silhouettes. The hard part might be finding a plain base 30 cal boolit mold. I would check to see if a gas check is OK at the shoots because the gas checks are cheap ($30/1000 approx) and all you need is a Lee sizer die to seat them ($21 approx).

[grouch]

I have CBE's 314190 mold, 1 cavity gas check, 1 cavity plain base, no extra charge for this option. There's not a lot to choose between them for accuracy, both can be very good with 15gr H110 for the gas checked bullet and about 12 gr for the plain based bullet(about 194 gr for the gas checked and 170 for the plain based). I've shot 200 yds with similar loads well within the capabilites of Lyman receiver sights and I believe williams too.
Grouch

[Baja_Traveler]

I shoot lever gun silhouette every weekend - my boolit of choice is the 170gr Lyman 311041 for all animals except chickens. For chickens I use the 115gr Lyman 311008 and a light Unique load. I use a Pat Marlins Checkmaker and make my own gas checks since I use so many.

For years I used a Williams Foolproof sight, but the past six months I've upgraded to an MVA Scheutzen Soule sight. Probably more money than most will want to spend, but it is absolutely repeatable every time, and is a work of art. Second best to a Soule for repeatability would be a Marbles tang sight.

[excess650]

If you're buying boolits, look for .311" and you may want to lube them with Lee liquid alox diluted with mineral spirits.

Be sure to have all of the copper out of the barrel.

If legal, use a good receiver sight. My preference is Redfield or Lyman and steel, but a Williams Foolproof with target knobs is fine. These all have click adjustments for windage and elevation. As much as I agree that a BPCRS type sight would be my choice, and I have them, they're more $ than a really nice, used Marlin.

[randyrat]

You can shoot some serious tight groups with the 336 and a good trigger. I use 170 grain Lee mold boolit sized to .309 with a gas check. Lube with a little bit of thinned Alox and enhanced with carnauba flakes.
My load for my gun is 24-28 grains of 30-31.
Your gonna have to sort the brass out also check for consistent weight in boolits.
My rifle is scoped with a Nikon BDC it is good for a large Bee at 50 yrds. Nope I don't kill honey bees just the other mean ones.

You may get different mileage with yours if it has Micro Groove rifling....MG rifling work better with a fatter boolit. but you can still shoot some serious groups with the MG

At 24-28 grains of 30-31 you don't need a Gorilla tough lube just a good fit and good loading practices
I shoot 75 -100 rds slow fire and no leading. Keeping the barrel cool

[Wayne Smith]

First, I assume you are casting your own. Why do you specify PB? You want a boolit that will hold to the microgroove, that's a 50/50 Pb/ww that is water dropped or a straight ww boolit that is air cooled or water dropped. You need a boolit that will fit your barrel, that means you really need to slug your barrel and measure with a micrometer. Size .002" over groove diameter and you will be fine. It will be easier to find a gc mold than a pb mold I think.

As for sights, you need repeatablity, so go with the receiver sight, not the tang sight.

[calkar]

I find that the 311291 does better for me than the 311041 out to the rams. Accuracy seems to fall apart right around the turkeys. Like Wayne said 50pb/50ww, water drop, gas check, lee tumble lube with a mineral spirits cut alox mix. Only use enough alox mix so that the boolits look just slightly varnished, the lube does not have to fill the grooves(youll just mess up your seating die), size to .311. My favorite load is the old cookbook load of 16gr. of 2400. Five years of cowboy silhouette and I have only dung a handfull of rams with that load. If you want to scoop the powder a .45gap caseing brazed to a handle throws around 17gr. of 2400.

[calkar]

Oh, and if you want your brass to last several seasons, lee collet neck size. Set neck tension to about .003. The Forster bench rest boolit seating die is great and will crimp for a tube magazine. You do not want to Lee factory crimp it will resize your lead boolit. I wish someone would have told me this stuff when I started.

[rintinglen]

I am amazed at how light some of these guys are shooting Rams with.
I gave up on the 30-30 when shooting at West End Gun Club. I have had 50 % ringers using 30-180 FN RCBS boolits over 18 grains of 2400. I went to 30 grains of 748 with 190 grain boolits and I still have had the occasional ringer. I bought a Marlin Cowboy 45-70 and they don't ring anymore.

[mroliver77]

Don't let anybody try to tell you the MG rifling will not shoot cast or that it will strip the rifling. MG can be finicky but I have little trouble with it. Like has been said, you need a boolit that fits well. If you don't want to spend the time to slug the gun start with a .311 boolit.
I don't shoot silhouette so cannot speak on suitable loads. As to the plainbase, sometimes using fillers helps protect the base and can get you more speed but testing and load work up is necessary to find what YOUR gun will tolerate. A gascheck boolit will get you there quicker. $.03 more for each round adding a gas check. Many buy Pat Marlins check masker and produce their own checks. If you do a lot of shooting this makes sense.
Like you say, time is a factor. $$ can save time by buying checks or boolits or bullets or loaded ammunition. You have to find the balance you are comfortable with. Me, if time or money is not there I don't do it.
J

[hydraulic]

I have had the same experience as rintinglen. 27 grs. 4895/ gc31141 ACWW would lose 2 out of 10 hits on the rams. Bought a '94 with a 26" .38-55 barrel and 29 4895/ gc375449 270 grain ACWW bullet STILL wouldn't push the rams over with a low hit. Both loads are running 1800 to 1900 fps. To heck with the rams. I'm going back to my '94 .30-30 and concentrating on getting all the chickens and pigs and half the turkeys and rams. That would give me a score of 30 and that will win, most of the time, at our club.

[w30wcf]

Super 88,
Welcome to the forum.

Surprisingly, a light load of 13.5 grs. of 4227 and a 180 gr RCBS cast bullet in the 30-30 was used to win the National Cowboy Silhouette championship a few years ago.

At that charge weight, a plain based bullet will shoot well. Just remember to position the powder to the back of the case for best results. That can be done easily by partially chambering a cartridge, raising the muzzle momentarily (less than 1 second) then closing the lever when the muzzle is pointed toward the target.

No doubt many rams fell to it....BUT....the rams at Raton are set the way they are supposed to be. There are positive stops on the forward edge of the stands which prevents them from being set too far forward.

As was indicated, at other ranges, the rams can be more difficult because there are no positive stops on the stands and it is up to the discretion of the target setters on how they are set.

A Lyman or Williams receiver sight would be my choice.

Hydraulic,
On some ranges, my 30-30 ram load is a 205gr cast gc bullet and 35 grs of H414.
Haven't lost one yet.

w30wcf

[DLCTEX]

The Lee factory crimp die for rifles will not size the boolit. The pistol FC dies have a carbide ring that may size the boolit if it is oversize. The FC die for rifles is adjustable for the amount of crimp and does an excellent job. The only part of the round that is worked by the die is the case rim. I have no problem hitting the targets of the size you indicate out to 150 yds. with my Marlin 30-30 shooting gas checked 170 and 150 gr. boolits sized .311. I don't know about 200 yds. as I haven't tried it that far.

[popper]

DLCTEX if FCD, roll or taper crimp only work the mouth of the neck (30-30), what is the difference in case life or accuracy? Most of the ammo I buy is ring or finger stamped crimp and is no more accurate than my loads. I understand the pushing down on the case vs a mandrel, but the neck still gets worked. I recently got a Lee collet die for my 30-30, it doesn't really very well, uses the same principle as the FCD. I'll end up wearing my press out on non-annealed brass, trying to get to .307. Best I can get it to do is .310 with 50# on the press handle.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My best advice, since I'm such and expert, is to get a Lyman 66LA receiver sight. Settle on a load and shoot it at all the ranges.

If you use a 100 yard zero. You'll use the setscrew stop on the sight as your permanent zero and set the elevation scale pointer to zero and the knob to zero.

Then you'll shoot and zero at 150 and 200 yds and record the two vertical settings on your sight and keep them for the shoot.

There will only be two and the set screw stop will be your permanent zero and where you always return to at the end. That way your gun is always sighted in when you need it.

Make sure your windage is dead on center, and set the sight knob and scale are set to zero. You probably will never have to change this for Short Range Sil.

You have got to have confidence in your sight settings.

When you shoot the match, you use the permanent zero for the first two stages and then reset your sight for the 150 yd Turkeys and then again for the Rams.

If you do it this way, and your sight settings are verified by shooting over a rest, when you miss you'll know EXACTLY why, and it won't be the gun.

It is an absolute waste of time to go to a shoot and chase your sights around. You're there to shoot targets not to sight in your gun.

Getting the gun sighted in, and knowing where it will shoot is half the battle.

If you do as I suggest, I guarantee it is the absolute simplest path to success. Of course you will have to hit the targets once your gun is sighted in correctly, but that's your problem.

MY .02.

Randy

[MikeS]

I see in your post that you don't want to cast your boolits, but would rather buy them already cast. If that's the case, why no gas check? Most commercial boolit casters will put the gas checks on their bullets when the lube them, so there's no extra work for you reloading them either with or without a gas check. Something to consider, there are commercial bullet casters, then there are commercial custom boolit casters. The difference? The first one will sell you a bullet that's as hard as he/she can make them, lube them with some unknown hard lube, and that's it. They probably use a large scale casting machine, offer them sized to their spec, and nothing can be changed. With a commercial boolit caster (and there are a few here) you can specify what alloy you want, what diameter you want them sized to, and what lube they're lubed with. While the custom casters will be more expensive, you have a lot more control over the finished product, almost as if you cast them yourself, but without the mess, heat, and fun!

[DLCTEX]

Popper: the FCD only crimps the rim of the case mouth, so works the brass less and only puts pressure on that small part which should be pressing into a crimp groove with no danger of sizing down a boolit. Why are you trying to size to .307? Cast for 30-30 should be .311, so .309 is sufficient. A good press will suffer minimal wear sizing cases, as evidenced by my RC still going strong after 33 years. Wear on the press is the least of my worries.
Actually, after a moment of thought I size the neck ID to 310, seat a .311 boolit, and crimp in the crimp groove with a FCD die and have zero problems with chambering, feeding, or accuracy.