Is Traditional Muzzleloading fading away?

[Sixgun Symphony]

Most hunters are not into guns, they only show up at the gunrange maybe a week before opening day to sight in their rifles and they're done. A 20rd box of cartridges will last them a few years.

They want to hunt in our season set aside for muzzle loading firearms. But they don't want to shoot a muzzle loading rifle. Tony Knight really knows his market when he designed the first modern inline rifle. It's as modern as possible, then Remington went further by making the first muzzle loading rifle with a faux bolt-action. It's a panacea for the hunters that really don't want to shoot a muzzle loader. Sort of like Linus and his blanket in the Charlie Brown cartoon.

[451 Pete]

Gentlemen,
I have been reading this thread for a while now and have been wrestling with the best way to put my thoughts into words.

I don't think that traditional muzzle loading is dying out, but rather that it has become buried under a mass of in-lines. You have to just dig a bit more to find it.

In-lines could be a subject for a study in a marketing class. You had the muzzle loading seasons set up in a lot of the states, you had the insurance company's wanting to thin out or eliminate the deer herds and you had a lot of hunters that wanted to extend thier hunting seasons. Everything was set in place. Along comes the in-line rifle with the manufacturers promise's, sounding a lot like a new politician campaigning for office.
" It's easier to clean. " It has a stainless steel barrel so it will not rust." " This rifle has the power of a 7mm Reminton Magnun." " It will always go off with this hotter priming system. " ......and it go's on and on. It worked, they sold them by the million.

I think the problem is that we see so many guy's going into muzzle loading but yet we forget that they are hunters only. They do not have an interest in the history or in what was traditional, they just want it made ( or perceived ) as being as simple as possible and want a muzzle loading rifle to extend thier hunting season.
They also want a muzzle loader made as much the same as the modern rifle that they are more familiar with. That appeals to them. If it is a bolt action and has a side safety instead of a half cock notch they understand it.

I also think that most of these fellows are not going to be showing up on a message board like this one. Most want it all done for them, rather than doing it for themselves.

Again most of these guys don't shoot thier in-lines a lot either. Pelletized powders and saboted bullets are expensive to buy and the rifles are so light that it makes the recoil severe. The in-lines are more expensive to shoot and not as much fun to shoot.

Now if you have read all of this you might think I am knocking the in-lines or the hunters, but I am really not. When a guy shows up at my local range with his in-line and if he shows any interest in the side hammer rifle that I am shooting, I will take the time to explain it to him, load it for him, and give him a few shots. I have managed to get a few to convert over to the dark side by doing this , but it is tough. Most of the local gun shops don't even carry side hammer rifles or the supplies needed to shoot them anymore, so it is not just a simple transition in going from one to the other. You first have to get past all of the manufacturers hype, not an easy thing to do.
I think the traditional muzzle loader may have faded just a little bit but it will not be going away any time soon so long as those of us that shoot the side hammers take the time to educate those that don't.

Just my thoughts ...... Pete

[Fly]

Pete you nailed it very well.The only thing I differ with you is the size of
ole muzzle loaders today.The attendendense at Friendship tell's alot.Not
what it was years back.

Fewer Muzzle loading clubs,& fewer side hammers sold.The reasons you give
are right on.I don't think it will ever die out all together, but no question it
is shinking.It's helps the custom gun builders, but I wonder how long T/C
keeps making the ole guy's.

More money to be made with inlines.Plastic stocks don't require the fitting
& finish the wood ones do.Time will tell, but unless something spurs it
I see nothing bringing it back to the ole times.
Fly

[Boz330]

The problem as I see it is there aren't that many younguns being exposed to it. If you just look at the overweight problem among the current generation you can see that they sit in front of computers playing those games instead of getting out and doing anything outside. I think that the shooting sports in general are declining and that limits the number of folks that get exposed to it to start with.
As Fly pointed out the number of venders and participants at Friendship is very telling. I can remember almost every booth having someone in them back in the 70s and you couldn't carry enough money for the possibilities.
I don't think that it will ever disappear, just that it has peaked and it is sad to see the decline from the hay day.

Bob

[451 Pete]

Fly and Boz,
I think that a portion of what you are seeing in the number of shooters declining at Friendship can also be blamed on the NMLRA. Times have changed, the world has changed and we haven't. I think we need to update our magazine publication and do a bit more advertising to let folks know we even exist. The magazine needs more things of historical content and more " How to ... " articles and maybe a bit of color. It is said that we are the best kept secret .... How many times have you heard that? We need to get our name out more in front of the public, I think that would help out too. This has been a topic of discussion of the board of directors there. I think that some changes are needed and are coming.

Boz , I think you are right on too. Kids do spend more time indoors today. It is not like when we were kids. My dad worked , mom stayed at home ... one persons wage could support a family. Both parents work today, they come home tired and use the TV and computor for a baby sitter.

The computor has also hurt us at Friendship with internet sales. A guy can sit at home and drink a coffee while he does his shopping so the vendors don't get the sales and don't stay at the shoot all week. People come looking for bargains and tell the vendors I can buy it cheaper from so and so on the internet.

There are also a lot more events going on today than what there used to be when Friendship and the shoot was the only game in town. And to all of this you can throw in an economy that has been in the tank in some areas for 8 years of more.

The bottom line is that there is no one thing I can point to and say that this is definitely what caused a decline in the participation at Friendship or in the decline in the traditional muzzle loading rifle and I don't think that any one single thing will be a fix. Maybe the Tri-Centenial Celebration of our country's birth.... but unfortunately I am old enough that I will not be able to attend.

Take care .... Pete

( We actually were up by about 40 registered shooters at last years fall match. This being with one of the main roads going into Friendship being closed because of a wash out so maybe we are doing something right. )

[Fly]

Well I agree.But I think something that would really help, is movie makers.The old
mountain men movies.More civil war movies & so on.I know that spurred me as a
kid.

Don't know how old you guys are, but I did have a Davey Crockett hat.Mmmmmmmmmmm

Fly

[Ajax]

i am only 37 but i did too fly.


Andy

[DODGEM250]

Gentlemen,
I have been reading this thread for a while now and have been wrestling with the best way to put my thoughts into words.

I don't think that traditional muzzle loading is dying out, but rather that it has become buried under a mass of in-lines. You have to just dig a bit more to find it.

In-lines could be a subject for a study in a marketing class. You had the muzzle loading seasons set up in a lot of the states, you had the insurance company's wanting to thin out or eliminate the deer herds and you had a lot of hunters that wanted to extend thier hunting seasons. Everything was set in place. Along comes the in-line rifle with the manufacturers promise's, sounding a lot like a new politician campaigning for office.
" It's easier to clean. " It has a stainless steel barrel so it will not rust." " This rifle has the power of a 7mm Reminton Magnun." " It will always go off with this hotter priming system. " ......and it go's on and on. It worked, they sold them by the million.

I think the problem is that we see so many guy's going into muzzle loading but yet we forget that they are hunters only. They do not have an interest in the history or in what was traditional, they just want it made ( or perceived ) as being as simple as possible and want a muzzle loading rifle to extend thier hunting season.
They also want a muzzle loader made as much the same as the modern rifle that they are more familiar with. That appeals to them. If it is a bolt action and has a side safety instead of a half cock notch they understand it.

I also think that most of these fellows are not going to be showing up on a message board like this one. Most want it all done for them, rather than doing it for themselves.

Again most of these guys don't shoot thier in-lines a lot either. Pelletized powders and saboted bullets are expensive to buy and the rifles are so light that it makes the recoil severe. The in-lines are more expensive to shoot and not as much fun to shoot.

Now if you have read all of this you might think I am knocking the in-lines or the hunters, but I am really not. When a guy shows up at my local range with his in-line and if he shows any interest in the side hammer rifle that I am shooting, I will take the time to explain it to him, load it for him, and give him a few shots. I have managed to get a few to convert over to the dark side by doing this , but it is tough. Most of the local gun shops don't even carry side hammer rifles or the supplies needed to shoot them anymore, so it is not just a simple transition in going from one to the other. You first have to get past all of the manufacturers hype, not an easy thing to do.
I think the traditional muzzle loader may have faded just a little bit but it will not be going away any time soon so long as those of us that shoot the side hammers take the time to educate those that don't.

Just my thoughts ...... Pete

This is called "dying out".

[DODGEM250]

Man I hear you BUT!I say to you this.You have Muzzle Loading season to just
harvest more deer.You already justifided that by your own report.

But You don't understand what this post is even about.Don't take this wrong.
But we traditional guys are more about the hunt than the meat.We want
Muzzle loading season to be what it was meant to be.( You really know what
I'm talking about) Do You? That's OK too.There's room for all.

But this may blow you away, but I have always hunted modern season
with a muzzle loader.

To each there own Fly

I can agree here. I hunt modern with a ML too. I own a shotgun, but, that's for rainy days so I don't lose time from meat harvesting. Inlines are great and all, but, it's just a front loaded shotgun in my opinion and I only use mine... well, for fun I guess you'd say.

[DODGEM250]

Fly and Boz,
I think that a portion of what you are seeing in the number of shooters declining at Friendship can also be blamed on the NMLRA. Times have changed, the world has changed and we haven't. I think we need to update our magazine publication and do a bit more advertising to let folks know we even exist. The magazine needs more things of historical content and more " How to ... " articles and maybe a bit of color. It is said that we are the best kept secret .... How many times have you heard that? We need to get our name out more in front of the public, I think that would help out too. This has been a topic of discussion of the board of directors there. I think that some changes are needed and are coming.

Boz , I think you are right on too. Kids do spend more time indoors today. It is not like when we were kids. My dad worked , mom stayed at home ... one persons wage could support a family. Both parents work today, they come home tired and use the TV and computor for a baby sitter.

The computor has also hurt us at Friendship with internet sales. A guy can sit at home and drink a coffee while he does his shopping so the vendors don't get the sales and don't stay at the shoot all week. People come looking for bargains and tell the vendors I can buy it cheaper from so and so on the internet.

There are also a lot more events going on today than what there used to be when Friendship and the shoot was the only game in town. And to all of this you can throw in an economy that has been in the tank in some areas for 8 years of more.

The bottom line is that there is no one thing I can point to and say that this is definitely what caused a decline in the participation at Friendship or in the decline in the traditional muzzle loading rifle and I don't think that any one single thing will be a fix. Maybe the Tri-Centenial Celebration of our country's birth.... but unfortunately I am old enough that I will not be able to attend.

Take care .... Pete

( We actually were up by about 40 registered shooters at last years fall match. This being with one of the main roads going into Friendship being closed because of a wash out so maybe we are doing something right. )

Which is now causing today's kids to be tomorrows losers and fat ones at that. Sorry for the off topic facts, but, it's one of my favorite subjects of today's world.

[Fly]

Yea It is call LAZY & SPOILED!Don't get me started on that PLEASE!

Fly

[Boz330]

Well I agree.But I think something that would really help, is movie makers.The old
mountain men movies.More civil war movies & so on.I know that spurred me as a
kid.

Don't know how old you guys are, but I did have a Davey Crockett hat.Mmmmmmmmmmm

Fly

I remember the original Disney program as well as Andy Burnett about the mountain men. I imagine Pete and I are about the same age. I just applied for SSI at full retirement age.
I started deer hunting with a T/C Renegade but as we actually started seeing deer I went to a HP rifle, really makes it pretty easy. For the last 15 years I have used a BPCR and ML for the challenge. Yeh I could try a bow but my field time is some what limited and I do like to have meat in the freezer. This year I used my homemade BP and still managed fill the freezer.

Bob

[Boerrancher]

I would love to see more mountain man movies, and TV shows set in the frontier period of America, but they will never be made. The Liberal Hollywood types will never make movies and TV shows that demonstrate the strong independent peoples who braved the wilds to settle this country. I take that back AMC has the show Hell on Wheels that is about the trans continental railroad, and they are doing a good job depicting the various struggles of people from the recently freed slaves to the interactions of former Union and Reb soldiers having to work together, and the encounters with the Natives, but I digress. Yes, more mountain man shows.

Best wishes,

Joe