Is Traditional Muzzleloading fading away?

[Fly]

There was a study in the states, and in Africa, on the wound loss ratio, between bow hunting and rifle hunting. It was exactly the same. Survival rate for animals wounded with arrows was significantly higher than those wounded with firearms, due to the clean wounds.
There may be more hunters in the woods with rifles after the archery season that occasionally find a dead animal. I imagine people out after rifle season finds the same thing. I've certainly found more deer that were shot by firearms and intentionally left, than those with arrows.

Well that may be but, Whats the rate of deer shot by guns to bow & arrow?

Not even close, Fly

[waksupi]

Well that may be but, Whats the rate of deer shot by guns to bow & arrow?

Not even close, Fly

Actually, that was averaged out in the studies. Many more were shot with rifles and shotguns than arrows due to there being more firearm hunters, so the archery part of the research stretched on further. So, I would have to expect for wounding and loss, firearms incidents would have to be higher.

[Fly]

Well buddy, I agree with 99% of your post.You a very smart guy, but as you
know a study is only as good as the fact,s that are put in.

I have no problem in bow hunting, so don't take me wrong.But I do beleave
there is many,many more clean kills with guns on average.JMOHOP

Fly

[reivertom]

I'll be hitting the woods Saturday deer hunting with my .54 Flinter longrifle. Not an in-line in sight! Am I totally period correct ? No, but Daniel Boone wouldn't notice anything much different other than really good boots and realtree camo.

[Boz330]

I'll be hitting the woods Saturday deer hunting with my .54 Flinter longrifle. Not an in-line in sight! Am I totally period correct ? No, but Daniel Boone wouldn't notice anything much different other than really good boots and realtree camo.

Better make that Blaze orange instead of Real Tree. Ole Daniel didn't have to worry about the game warden, although the Indians extracted a much steeper fine.
Good luck, I'll be out there myself, with a traditional.

Bob

[Boz330]

Having spent several years guiding elk hunters in NM I came to the conclusion that the average hunter isn't a marksman. I have seen more animals missed than killed. I had very few modern gun hunters, but they weren't much better.
One hunter blew an antler off of a sleeping bull at 60yds when he was supposed to be making a heart lung shot. The bull would have scored in the 370 range. The bull was so stunned that he stood long enough for the hunter to reload and make the kill, but he sure took some grief when he got back to camp.

Bob

[Geraldo]

Well buddy, I agree with 99% of your post.You a very smart guy, but as you
know a study is only as good as the fact,s that are put in.

I have no problem in bow hunting, so don't take me wrong.But I do beleave
there is many,many more clean kills with guns on average.JMOHOP

Fly

Spend some time on a public range and you'll be rethinking that. I can't count the time I've heard people say that hitting an 8" target semi-consistently OFF THE BENCH at 50-100 yards is good enough to hunt with. That is with ML and cartridge guns. If they can't hit consistently from a rock solid position, imagine how well they'll shoot standing upright.

[bart55]

I totally agree ,I have watched guys with the latest scoped super custom magnums and a few with rifles brought out of the closet for deer season ,completely miss the target at 50 yards off the bench ! then proceed to shoot a box of ammo and maybe get a hit or two . I Shoot a flinter 50 cal that is a dead on out to 100 yards and at 50 offhand I can keep most into one hole . and I am amazed that these guys actually ever kill anything .I just got back from hunting with my flintlock ,no deer today but it was a good day to be out !

[peter nap]

Exactly! After seeing Jeremiah Johnson, me and a friend bought a T/C "Hawken" kit from Gander Mountain. I don't shoot the rifles much anymore but still love the old double barreled shotguns. Always gathers a crowd at the range. This is my favorite shotgun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxYq...&feature=feedf

The movie I like most is the Mountain Men with Charlton Heston and Brian Keith.

The real person behind Jeremiah Johnson...was John Johnson. His story is told in a book called The Crow Killer and was told by the real Del Gewe.

Many of Johnson's stories are used in the Mountain Men but neither tells it all....like Johnson cutting off an indian leg to use as a MRE while escaping his captors.

NO....Traditional Muzzle Loading isn't dead but the woods are full of plastic stocked, front stuffing bolt action rifles being used by people who wouldn't be interested in the season if they couldn't use them.

[ReloaderEd]

The Traditional Muzzleloaders are still good and are used by those who enjoy them. Lyman still produces some of the best percussion and flints. They are stong and will shoot fairly accurately. Using the newer Hogden Tripple Se7en 2F one can achieve 1700 to 1900 fps using round balls or a variety of conicals and I stress in newer stronger muzzleloaders. The Hogden powder is not black powder and you can buy it for around 20 dollars a pound at BiMart out here in Washington State. Traditional blackpowder will be a thing of the past soon sadly but I understand the safety issue. Also, Inline Muzzleloaders are illegal to use as muzzleloaders in some states and I have read the 209 primers are not that great at ignition. Be Safe

[451whitworth]

as to the original topic, yes it's already faded away. not totally but it will probably stay where it's at numbers wise for some time. participation in muzzleloader season is the driving force. everyone i know who used to hunt with side hammers in the '80's switched to an inline.

[mack1]

. Traditional blackpowder will be a thing of the past soon sadly but I understand the safety issue.

I do not understand how something can become a thing of the past when any above average highschool chem student can make it. I do not understand giving up any Independence for a false sense of security. I am not trying to start an argument I am just starting with flintlocks and they depend on real black to operate reliably and the thought of giving up black powder because someone might get hurt or missuse it when it has been in use for hunderds of years is beyond me what will be next horses, we must be careful in our way of thinking I have been guilty of this myself. I do not think traditional muzzle loading is fading as there are many venders of rifles and supplies.

[Newtire]

The movie I like most is the Mountain Men with Charlton Heston and Brian Keith.

Hi Peter,
Me and the missus just watched that movie. Funny how Brian Keith had such perfect teeth! Kind of like watching an Italian opera when it takes forever to die in the scene where Brian Keith is taking his last breath. I did like the movie though.

[waksupi]

I think the reason you don't see many traditional type muzzle loaders on dealers shelves, is the advancement of the sport. Todays serious shooters are more sophisticated, and demand a higher quality firearm. Off the shelf rifles just don't make it for quality and aesthetics.
Most builders are kept busy with orders for custom guns. Even in this economy, I am surprised how steady the business has been for me.
The modern custom long rifles and fowlers is an overlooked arena for gun collectors. The muzzle loaders being built today for the most part far surpass the quality of the old original guns. This is truly the second Golden Age of muzzle loaders.

[Canuck Bob]

My only BP rifle is a Lyman .54 Lefty Flinter. I will not buy an inline because it lacks any charm. For me nothing matches hurtling a big PRB down range with a powder that was formulted millenia ago and lit with a rock! We have very long seasons here still so primitive seasons aren't the lure they are elsewhere.

I think a factor often not accounted for is how busy many of us are. With the economy and hard markets I work a lot. I'm sure not popping cold ones in front of the TV. My stress relief is visiting these forums. Money is tight for almost evey family man. In times like these a box or two of Wally World ammo and a quick range session with a deer rifle is all many guys can afford or schedule. It cuts deep into such markets as traditional muzzies.

[P.K.]

My 4 y/o stands 10 feet away as I pour a REAL and drop it. "Dad is that a Bullet?" Yes son it is, someday you'll be shooting it or pouring it.



"Not w/o you."

Don't cry in your melt......My son is a gem.

[Newtire]

My 4 y/o stands 10 feet away as I pour a REAL and drop it. "Dad is that a Bullet?" Yes son it is, someday you'll be shooting it or pouring it.



"Not w/o you."

Don't cry in your melt......My son is a gem.

And someday, when he graduates from college and brings his friends home to see his cool dad who shoots guns and makes his own boolits, you'll still remember him when he was 4 years old.

[P.K.]

And someday, when he graduates from college and brings his friends home to see his cool dad who shoots guns and makes his own boolits, you'll still remember him when he was 4 years old.

Shame on you! Me misting over my melt......

[brad925]

I find most if not all that shoot strictly in-line muzzle loaders shoot them for an increased hunting opportunity not for the the love of muzzle loading. Here in Alberta canada the seaon is for primative arms. I see nothing primative about an in-line muzzle loader. Savage pretty much ruined that with their abomination of what a muzzle loader is. But i degress and each to their own. The newer generation is all about technology. They want it faster and easier. The less skill involved the better. But again i apologise for the rant.

[Fly]

I think the reason you don't see many traditional type muzzle loaders on dealers shelves, is the advancement of the sport. Todays serious shooters are more sophisticated, and demand a higher quality firearm. Off the shelf rifles just don't make it for quality and aesthetics.
Most builders are kept busy with orders for custom guns. Even in this economy, I am surprised how steady the business has been for me.
The modern custom long rifles and fowlers is an overlooked arena for gun collectors. The muzzle loaders being built today for the most part far surpass the quality of the old original guns. This is truly the second Golden Age of muzzle loaders.

Well if not for the over the counter traditional rifles I most likly would have
never got into muzzle loaders at all.My first was a CVA mountan rifle I bought
in 1977 & still own today.

I love the custom long guns also.But let's face it, how many people will
spend $1000 or more to get into this as just a sport.I will bet over 90%
of us ole traditional guys started with a TC or CVA or kit gun of some type.

Then later moved up to the custom traditionals.I just don't think many inline owners will ever exsplore our world of shooting.

JMOHOP Fly