That would explain why the stain didn't apply evenly...

[TomBulls]

I've been in the process of doing some extensive repairs and refinishing on a project rifle, and I hit a pretty nasty snag.

After stripping the stock, drying, sanding, wet-sanding, drying again, pre-staining, and then staining-- the stain STILL came out uneven and blotchy. So I stripped the stock, again. Dried it out, ironed out the dents (which I didn't do the first time...), dried it out again, pre-stained, stained... And... The stain came out blotchy and uneven AGAIN.

It would be my luck, but after much thought on the issue, it looks like the stripper I was using was only designed to remove finishes and not stains or oils. SO I went back to the home improvement store and shopped for a new brand of stripper. Since the previous one didn't explicitly say on the container that it would remove oils or oil paints and stains, and the new stripper did-- Hopefully I can get it right this time.

Anyone else have this problem with the stripper? It would seem that CitriStrip is a pretty popular one, but as a rule I don't shop at WalMart so I won't be buying it if I HAVE TO buy it from WalMart.

[nekshot]

hmmmm, never heard of that but there is a lot I don't know. I do know if the wood is softer type and the stain blotches apply any sealer thinned with thinner and stain immediatly don't let the sealer dry usually works. And some wood just doesn't realise the need to cooperate with us guys!

[Reg]

Sounds like you still have deeply imbedded finish in the wood. You either need to sand deeper to get rid of it or you have hard and soft spots in the wood itself and the original finish penetrated deeper there and is resisting the stain. Either way, it will need more sanding.

[chsparkman]

You might also try soaking the wood in acetone to remove some of the deeper oils. What kind of wood is it? Does it need to be stained?

[TomBulls]

You might also try soaking the wood in acetone to remove some of the deeper oils. What kind of wood is it? Does it need to be stained?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-(Marlin-122)

^ That's the stock that I'm working on. I guess it's up for debate whether or not the stock REALLY needs to be stained, but I'm using a very light colored stain which only lightly darkens the stock.

I was thinking about acetone earlier, about trying to raise the grain a little bit for a finer finish. Is acetone SAFE to use on wood? Will it break down the whatever-it-is that holds the wood together? I have plenty of acetone, but I've been reluctant to apply any amount to the wood stock.

[chsparkman]

I've never seen wood like that...some kind of walnut subspecies? No, acetone won't hurt the wood, at least in my experience. Maybe apply some to an unseen part of the stock and take a look. If you can't get it to come out even, then you might try a dark stain. Just thoughts, don't act too quickly on my advice.

[TomBulls]

Sounds like you still have deeply imbedded finish in the wood. You either need to sand deeper to get rid of it or you have hard and soft spots in the wood itself and the original finish penetrated deeper there and is resisting the stain. Either way, it will need more sanding.

Yep. It needed more sanding. A LOT MORE sanding. Seeing how I get to re-do all sorts of work that I've already done, I'm also taking this opportunity to cut some plugs from inside the barrel channel to fill the couple of spots on the rifle which the previous owner decided to drill holes into. Hard-to-do project rifles are fun because I get to practice all sorts of fixes and repairs that I otherwise wouldn't encounter.

[TomBulls]

You might also try soaking the wood in acetone to remove some of the deeper oils. What kind of wood is it? Does it need to be stained?

Wiping it down with an acetone-soaked cloth helped out a lot. It took out some of the surface oils, raised some grain for sanding, and also helped it dry out a little quicker so as to reveal other remaining oil spots.

[chsparkman]

Very good. Be sure and post a pic when it's done. That's some interesting wood.

[KYRick]

That should turn out really well.

[TomBulls]

That should turn out really well.

Thanks, I think it will, too.

But, I need some tips. I'm fearful of that the stain might, in some freakishly horrific off-chance, fail to apply evenly for a third time. It was recommended that I cut the stain with acetone or mineral spirits. Would this help to make the wood take the stain more evenly, in addition to having applied a pre-stain?

[waksupi]

If it's a birch stock, lotsa luck getting it even. Wood density varies so much, the only way I found to get it half way close, was to steel wool the darker areas, and try to lighten them to the lightest color.

[lmcollins]

A friend who is a furniture maker and I were talking about wood finishing. He suggested that I go to the library and look at some books on furniture finishing.

I did as he suggested. The books said that you had to use various sanding sealers to get an even stain. The type of sealer to be determined by the type of stain you were useing. They showed pictures of wooden spindles done with and without the sealer. The no sealers were blotchy.

All I can say is go to the library.

[Maven]

Tom, Also think about sending Gunfreak25 a PM about the problem.

[2152hq]

It's like trying to evenly stain a piece of cheap plywood. Oil stain won't get you much but blotches of color penetration as the ground up pigment in suspension in oil stain won't be absorbed at all in many spots of the wood,,will be slightly in others and in a few will be drawn in deeply.

You need a solvent based dye/stain instead. Alcohol or other solvent based so it penetrates the wood and colors it thru instead of depending on what tiny color particles can be absorbed by the cell stucture.

Think of oil stain as mud (dirt suspended in water).
Solvent based stain as a glass of red wine. Color disolved in the liquid that can penetrate the surface.

The factorys have used beech, elm, birch, ect for years and have colored it to a walnut tone. They do it with solvent based stain/dye.
Then finish over the top and use a color toner in the finish itself to further darken the final look if you want.

Penn Long Rifles are made from blond colored sugar maple. They are finished to reddish orange colors.
Many originals used an iron nitrate solution and heat to stain the maple. Some makers still use the process.
Now it's easier to use wipe on solvent based stains to get the same look. Many people use 'leather dye'. Again just another solvent based stain and it works great.
You can make the the wood black in color if you want to. Just pick the right colors or combinations and apply.

I use mostly Laurel Mountain stains now, but still have several in powdered form that need to be mixed w/ alcohol then strained before use. The pre-mixed is obviously easier.
Wood craft shops usually have something for you. On-line is easy to buy of course.

[geargnasher]

It's like trying to evenly stain a piece of cheap plywood. Oil stain won't get you much but blotches of color penetration as the ground up pigment in suspension in oil stain won't be absorbed at all in many spots of the wood,,will be slightly in others and in a few will be drawn in deeply.

You need a solvent based dye/stain instead. Alcohol or other solvent based so it penetrates the wood and colors it thru instead of depending on what tiny color particles can be absorbed by the cell stucture.

Think of oil stain as mud (dirt suspended in water).
Solvent based stain as a glass of red wine. Color disolved in the liquid that can penetrate the surface.

The factorys have used beech, elm, birch, ect for years and have colored it to a walnut tone. They do it with solvent based stain/dye.
Then finish over the top and use a color toner in the finish itself to further darken the final look if you want.

Penn Long Rifles are made from blond colored sugar maple. They are finished to reddish orange colors.
Many originals used an iron nitrate solution and heat to stain the maple. Some makers still use the process.
Now it's easier to use wipe on solvent based stains to get the same look. Many people use 'leather dye'. Again just another solvent based stain and it works great.
You can make the the wood black in color if you want to. Just pick the right colors or combinations and apply.

I use mostly Laurel Mountain stains now, but still have several in powdered form that need to be mixed w/ alcohol then strained before use. The pre-mixed is obviously easier.
Wood craft shops usually have something for you. On-line is easy to buy of course.

I read both threads hoping somebody would point this out, you're the first! I worked at a custom cabinet shop for a couple of years, and we did a couple of jobs out of Beech, the European stuff. I absolutely detest it. It's hard and tough and blows up high-speed bits, it just about can't be sanded without leaving scratch marks in it, and it won't take stain.

We ended up using a laquer stain from a guitar finishing outfit on one job and tinted sealer for the other job. Took four coats of sanding sealer to fill the grain as I recall.

Gear

[TomBulls]

What I ended up doing was giving it a heavy coat of sanding sealer, and then a varnish to give it a nice shine. It turned out well enough, but I have since given up all thoughts of staining that sort of wood ever again.

-thomas