keeping lube in grooves

[abunaitoo]

When seating the bullets, sometimes the lube in the grooves gets pulled out. Not all of it, just in some places. Anyone else have this happen????

I'm using Lars45 lube. 4sticks of 50/50 to one of Carnuba red. Pan lube. Mostly Lee .30 bullets, but it happends with Lyman's too. Lead is water qunched wheel weights.

Seater is a Lee. For the .309 bullet I use a .311 seater, for .311 a .323.

I get no leading, so lube must be working. It just seems like the lube should be in all the grooves.

Any ideas on what I could try to correct this????

[1Shirt]

Sounds like you are not belling the mouth a bit with either an M-Die or a Lee expander etc. and/or are not seating the boolit straight. Just my 2cents.
1Shirt!

[jonk]

Ditto on the above. Also I find pan lubing comes out easier than if force injected in a lube sizer. Dunno why, but it just seems to.

[abunaitoo]

I use the Lee expanding die. Without expanding the case, it's hard to start the bullet in straight. The bullets seem to be going in straight. No shavings on the side.
I'm wondering if the lube is to soft???? Would a harder lube keep it's shape better, so as not to pull out of the grooves????

[Dale53]

I have had my share of problems over the years but I have NEVER had a problem with the lube "pulling out of the grooves". I have lubed tens of thousands of bullets with Lyman, most with 50/50 Alox/Beeswax, and thousands with Emmerts Home Mix. I have bought a supply of Lars Red Carnuba Lube and frankly, I don't expect to have problems with it. I guess I am having a problem understanding why this is happening for you. My cases, of all calibers, are full length sized, then expanded. My favorite expanders are Lyman "M" dies but in addition I use Lee Auto Powder Measures, and other brand expanders without a single problem.

Giving this some thought, it is possible that you have overheated the lube. If you have not melted it with a double boiler, understand that with direct heat you can damage your lube and if so, all bets are off.

I wish I could do more to help you.

Dale53

[abunaitoo]

I pan lube my bullets. I use a toaster oven set at 200'. I don't think the lube is being overheated. Nice and red with no black gunk on the bottom.
I'm thinking the lube is to soft. It feels a little softer than playdough.
Before I started using Lars45 lube I had made up my own lube. It was Parafin, Lee Alox, and candle wax. The lube was way harder than what I'm using now (I changed to get away from the parafin and unknown candle wax). Only problem I had with it was sometimes it would not fill the grooves.
I think I'll try adding more beas wax.

[35remington]

I don't understand.

How does the lube "pull off" the bullet when it is going down into the case with the bullet?

Is the lube sitting higher than the sides of the bullet, catches on the case mouth or what?

I can honestly say that I haven't heard this complaint before. I have heard of lube building up in dies, clogging the seater, etc. but this is a new one on me.

Care to explain a little more? Might shed some light on this. How does it get pulled off?

[Ricochet]

I've had hardened Johnon's Paste Wax pull out of the grooves. The belled case mouth put pressure on the wax on the side of the boolit, which sheared off in sheets, and lifted the wax out of the groove with it. Softer waxes, like JPW that hasn't fully dried or White Lightning, will shear off the thick coating on the bands, but don't cohere well enough to lift out what's in the grooves. Doesn't happen with gooey Lee Liquid Alox, either.

[wmitty]

Abunaitoo, I'm pan lubing .30 cal boolets with LAR 50/50 and ran into this problem the other day when I pulled some bullets and replaced them with a harder alloy boolet. The lube was coming out of the upper lube groove of the 31141 group buy boolet. I think the problem was caused by my neglecting to adequately preheat the boolets before pouring the melted lube around them. DALE53's article is the best description of pan lubing I've seen and it mentions the need to preheat the boolets to obtain correct adhesion of the lube.

[44man]

Pan lubing or using an oversize sizing die always leaves some lube on the sides of the boolit. When you seat it, the excess lube is pushed off. I don't think you are pulling any lube out of the grooves. You are guessing about something that is not happening.

[MT Chambers]

Some lubes that I have experimented with would come out of the grooves just by contacting other bullets in the box, usually one of the soft lubes, I never had it happen with hard, waxy, lubes.

[monadnock#5]

How long between lube/sizing and seating? If it's an extended period of time, warm/humid and cold/dry seasonal cycles will make the lube dry and brittle.

[44man]

Harder lubes are only good in rifles at high velocity. Most rifles love a soft lube as do revolvers. Any lube that breaks out of the grooves is no good because when shot, some will stay in the grooves throwing the boolit out of balance.
A friend sent me boolits to test and half of the lube was in the bottom of the box. I had to remove the rest and re-lube every boolit. Felix and Lar's lubes are perfect for almost anything.
One thing I have noticed is a change in consistancy of some lubes when applied with pressure. I get better results by rubbing the lube in the grooves with my fingers, then running through a tube or larger push through size die. Pan lubing and using a cookie cutter is good too. I like a soft, sticky lube and have never seen any come out of the grooves when seating the boolits. I even rub in Lar's carnauba red but it is real hard on my fingers.
It makes a mess in my seating and crimping dies but I accept this for the accuracy and lack of leading I get. It is a trade off between loading fast and shooting good. I would rather shoot good!