WidenersInline FabricationRepackboxLoad Data
MidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingRotoMetals2Reloading Everything
Lee Precision
Page 4 of 39 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 768

Thread: Project - PID on Lee Pro 4 20 furnace

  1. #61
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Great Land
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by Cranium View Post
    Ok...I completely understand where you are coming from....."If it isn't like mine, it is flawed and sucks" mentality.
    Not at all, I used mine because it is well thought out and, for a prototype, professionally done.

    I, as an Electronics Engineer, have every right to have opinions on this, You might be advised to listen.

    Would you like links to all to good designs built by members of this board?
    There are many, the search function would have found them for you.
    see 'The Professor's' dual design.


    You, as an after thought (cough cough) realized, your upright PID would get ruined by lead, patch

    It was pointed out the heat generated would be bad for the SSR when in the casing, patch. So you added an exposed to the lead/fingers/what ever it might hit. What happens when someone reaches around back? electric shock.

    You 'decided' on a fuse, patch. even if you have no idea of what type of fuse(s) would be good.

    Oh and BTW, that AL case is going to get mighty hot being in contact with the upright on the pot. You did provide a way to vent the heat build up on the inside,didn't you? The best way would be to use standoffs and get it off the heat source. But a few air flow vents May be marginally adequate. Just because it's AL doesn't mean it stays cool, AL heats up just as fast as it cools down.

  2. #62
    Boolit Buddy Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158
    Self censored for content not relating to the intent of the thread.
    Last edited by Cranium; 05-31-2011 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #63
    ADMIN



    HATCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    6,702
    Wow, this thread has really headed in the wrong direction.

    We each have our own designs and how we do things.

    I personally didn't run a fuse on my design.
    the 1/32 PID itself pulls less then 2 watts of power. So @ 110v we would need a fuse that is .02 amps.

    As far as a fuse for the SSR, my Lee pot isn't fused.

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158
    I agree.

    Building a custom bottom pour lead pot is something that I'd love to do. Something to have more capacity for casting. I came across this last night from another member of this forum and think the design is great! Adding a hinged insulated top and a bottom mount thermocouple along with a 1/4 DIN PID Temperature Controller with ramp/soak would be the bees knees! I could use it for casting, smelting, and even very controlled heat treating.

    http://bliksemseplek.com/boolits.html

  5. #65
    Boolit Master bbqncigars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    511
    I didn't put a fuse in the PID enclosure for my Lee, since the setup on the Zaffiro has been running fine for years. My homebrew heat sink hasn't gotten more than mildly warm, so that's a good thing.
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant

  6. #66
    Boolit Buddy Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by bbqncigars View Post
    I didn't put a fuse in the PID enclosure for my Lee, since the setup on the Zaffiro has been running fine for years. My homebrew heat sink hasn't gotten more than mildly warm, so that's a good thing.
    It's great that you put the PID in your Zaffiro. I've debated buying a different espresso machine so I could do this. I've had my millennium for about 10 years now and have only had to replace the pressure sensor. I hope something more major will go out on it to give me an excuse to buy something else.

    Do you roast your beans as well? I don't but I've seen people that have used PIDs to control their roasting. Until I do start roasting, I'll just continue to buy blackcat espresso beans.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,320
    I hope you folks are happy! I need another project like I need a hole in the head. But this PID seems so darn intriguing that I just ordered $137 worth of stuff to make a stand alone PID that I can use with multiple furnaces and in a Heat Cabinet I'm building to cure Gun-Kote baked on gun finishes...........

    Thanks a lot!
    Roy B
    Massachusetts

    www.rvbprecision.com

  8. #68
    Boolit Buddy Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by rbertalotto View Post
    I hope you folks are happy! I need another project like I need a hole in the head. But this PID seems so darn intriguing that I just ordered $137 worth of stuff to make a stand alone PID that I can use with multiple furnaces and in a Heat Cabinet I'm building to cure Gun-Kote baked on gun finishes...........

    Thanks a lot!
    You are quite welcome!

    Be sure to post some pics of your build. I'd like to see that heat cabinet! Did you order the 1/4 DIN PID Temperature Controller with ramp/soak?

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,320
    1/4 DIN PID Temperature Controller with ramp/soak
    I have no idea! All that I know is it's been raining all week and the ramp to my garden shed is already soaked. Wheels are slipping like crazy on the tractor!

    Here is the actual order I placed......

    Products
    ------------------------------------------------------
    1 x K type high temperature thermocouple for heat treatment (WRNK-191) =
    $21.62
    Probe Length Option 10" (250 mm)
    1 x 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control output) (SYL-2352) = $44.50
    1 x 25A SSR (RS1A40D25) = $15.00
    1 x Compact Box for 1/16 DIN Controller and Timer (CPTbox16) = $22.32
    1 x Heat Sink for Solid State Relay, 25A (HS25) = $9.65
    1 x Thermal Grease, Silicone Compound (SI-2.5) = $1.97
    1 x Panel mount connector for K thermocouple (TCCON) = $5.26
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Sub-Total: $120.32
    Zone Rates (Shipping to US): $17.50
    Total: $137.82



    I went with a panel mount disconnect so I can change the probes easily if I have them semi permanently mounted to various pots and the heat cabinet.
    Roy B
    Massachusetts

    www.rvbprecision.com

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158
    With the heat cabinet you plan on building, does it require a certain rate of temperature increase to work the best? And then followed by holding it at a temperature for a certain period of time then cooling it down slowly? If so, this is what the ramp/soak feature does. If it only requires heating it up to a certain temperature then turning it off after a period of time, you should be good.

    A good heat treatment oven would require the additional functions to make it easier.

  11. #71
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gloucester,MA
    Posts
    131

    New PID project

    I finally got my PID finished and working by incorporating everyone’s ideas and suggestions. I ended up using the SYL-2352 mounted in a computer power supply with fan, 25A SSR and the Point Contact TC mounted on the bottom of the Lee 4-20 pot. I originally welded a ¼-20 bushing dead center on the lee pot and before I added lead I found that it would interfere with my Lyman 4 cavity mold. I had to grind the bushing off and relocated it to the far right hand side of the pot, in order for the spruce plate to clear the TC wiring. After the relearn, it regulates very well and I get consistent bullets from full to 80% empty pot. The only problem I had was the difference in TC readings between an inserted TC and the bottom mounted TC. Both TC’s are calibrated to each other but the one on the bottom read 50° cooler than the one that is immersed in the lead. I had to set the PID to 590° in order to maintain a 650° lead temperature. I am hoping that there a simple way to calibrate or modify the bottom mount TC to read the real temperature.


    BOB
    22LR, 9MM, 45 ACP, 45 LC, 45-70, 6MM BR, 30BR, 222, 204, 22-250, 7-30 WATERS, 12GA, 36 & 44 BP

  12. #72
    Boolit Buddy Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    158
    Bob,

    Looks very nice! I do like the bottom mount TC for a permanent installation solution. I'm glad you mentioned installing it dead center and the issue you had with it...that is where I would have done it as well.

    The difference in temperature is concerning. Is this the 1/2" TC? Did you take the pot apart to see if the TC is penetrating all of the insulation and that there is no air gap between it and the inner pot?

  13. #73
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gloucester,MA
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Cranium View Post
    The difference in temperature is concerning. Is this the 1/2" TC? Did you take the pot apart to see if the TC is penetrating all of the insulation and that there is no air gap between it and the inner pot?
    Yes, the TC is 1/2" long with a 1/4-20 thread and the hollow welded bushing is a little less than 3/8". The TC is just touching the pot's bottom with very slight pressure and it is held in position with a lock nut, so I was surprised at the 50° difference. I did have to take the pot apart and there is no insulation on the sides or bottom. For now I will just set it at a lower temperature until I find a solution as I would like to be able to read and control the exact temperature.
    BOB
    22LR, 9MM, 45 ACP, 45 LC, 45-70, 6MM BR, 30BR, 222, 204, 22-250, 7-30 WATERS, 12GA, 36 & 44 BP

  14. #74
    Boolit Bub kitsap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Western Washington State
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by bpratl View Post
    The only problem I had was the difference in TC readings between an inserted TC and the bottom mounted TC. Both TC’s are calibrated to each other but the one on the bottom read 50° cooler than the one that is immersed in the lead. I had to set the PID to 590° in order to maintain a 650° lead temperature. I am hoping that there a simple way to calibrate or modify the bottom mount TC to read the real temperature.
    Go look at page 3/8 in your instructions and look at the Pb Input Offset setting that is explained in paragraph 4.10. It provides for an offset, either positive or negative, to compensate for the exact problem you are describing. I would think you would want to put in a -60 offset to get your readout to match the lead temperature in the pot. Just a thought...........

    DougF

  15. #75
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gloucester,MA
    Posts
    131
    kitsap, Thanks for pointing this out, I will give this a try and report my findings.
    Last edited by bpratl; 05-25-2011 at 12:18 PM.
    BOB
    22LR, 9MM, 45 ACP, 45 LC, 45-70, 6MM BR, 30BR, 222, 204, 22-250, 7-30 WATERS, 12GA, 36 & 44 BP

  16. #76
    Boolit Master



    snuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Oshkosh Wi.
    Posts
    1,747
    so I was surprised at the 50° difference.
    So, how are you determining that you're 50 degrees cooler than the pid readout?

    My installation, the TC does NOT touch the pot bottom. It simply reads the temp off the pot bottom.



    Yes, it DOES interfere with the longer molds like the lee 6 bangers. And no I don't have a separate thermometer. I would believe the pid and TC even if it is not immersed in the actual melt. The temp drop-off from the actual melt to the pot simply could not be 50 degrees.

    Frozone, I saw your fix for the TC leaking on the other pid thread on the special projects forum. I looked high and low for that compression fitting. Could not find one locally! As for the nut/fitting that's on the TC, it looks like that stab crimp is all that holds it on there. I will file that down enough to let the nut slip past it. I'm going to move the TC location as I have to drop the mold guide way down to clear the TC. I know I need to be closer to the spout on some molds.

    I just ordered that TC from flea-bay, it should answer the seal question. I'll re-locate the TC to where Cranium has his. It''l penetrate the pot so as to read actual melt temp.
    Last edited by snuffy; 05-25-2011 at 11:45 AM. Reason: added new TC order

  17. #77
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Great Land
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by snuffy View Post
    Frozone, I saw your fix for the TC leaking on the other pid thread on the special projects forum. I looked high and low for that compression fitting. Could not find one locally!....
    I just ordered that TC from flea-bay, it should answer the seal question. I'll re-locate the TC to where Cranium has his. It''l penetrate the pot so as to read actual melt temp.
    Got mine at 'ACE Hardware'. They're on the rack with all the other brass tubing type fittings. Remember, a 1/8" tubing fitting has 3/8" threads.

    [edit]
    I found that the far left side of the pot is the best location. About 1/2" from the side, that way it's far enough from the side to not be on the 'ogive' (the curved transition from side to bottom), far enough out so you can still stir around it, and far enough left it is still behind the mold rest so it's protected from impact with the molds.

    A piece of spring wire makes a great wire guide to keep the TC cable up and out of the way just twist one end into a loop that the bottom screws will hold and the other end into a 1 and 1/4 turn spiral, so you can place /remove the TC wire.
    [/edit]
    Last edited by Frozone; 05-25-2011 at 03:56 PM. Reason: add info

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gloucester,MA
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by snuffy View Post
    So, how are you determining that you're 50 degrees cooler than the pid readout?
    My installation, the TC does NOT touch the pot bottom. It simply reads the temp off the pot bottom.
    The melt, as indicated in the PID, was actually ~50-60° hotter than the immersed probe temperature.
    I also have two different immersion "K" type digital temperature monitors that I checked the melt temperature. One read 715° and the other read 706° and the PID bottom mount TC read 650° which was my set point.
    BOB
    22LR, 9MM, 45 ACP, 45 LC, 45-70, 6MM BR, 30BR, 222, 204, 22-250, 7-30 WATERS, 12GA, 36 & 44 BP

  19. #79
    ADMIN



    HATCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    6,702
    you can do a offset adjustment.
    I would set the PID temp at 500 then check the immersed probe.
    Then check it at 550,600,650,700,750

    do a average of the difference in your offset.

    You really don't need to know the EXACT temp for your PID. What you need is a repeatable reference temp.
    If every time the PID reads 650 the lead temp is 710 then thats all you need to know.

    The pid on my star heater doesn't tell me the exact temp of the star itself, but it gives me a reference temp that is repeatable. I know when the temp hits 115 its time to start sizing boolits.

  20. #80
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Great Land
    Posts
    998
    bpratl

    I'll take a WAG and say the problem is caused by the 'banana' plugs you are using to connect the TC to the PID. Or with the wiring behind the plugs.

    If you connect the immersion TCs to the PID, using the same banana style connection, do you get the same ~50° error?
    Last edited by Frozone; 05-25-2011 at 04:01 PM.

Page 4 of 39 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check