MidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2Lee PrecisionTitan Reloading
Reloading EverythingPBcastcoRepackboxLoad Data
Inline Fabrication Wideners
Page 38 of 39 FirstFirst ... 282930313233343536373839 LastLast
Results 741 to 760 of 768

Thread: Project - PID on Lee Pro 4 20 furnace

  1. #741
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    For what it's worth.........
    Every wire connection from your temperature probe will introduce a voltage drop at that connection point.
    Granted, we are down in the milli-volt range, but so is the output of the probe.
    These voltage drops will introduce a signal to the PID that is less than the actual value being outputted from the probe.
    An example would be if you wired the probe leads to a terminal block and then from the terminal block to the PID.

    So, from the probe you would have a crimp connector (point #1) on the wire that is then connected to the terminal block (point #2), then on the other side of the terminal block (point#3) is another crimp connector (point #4) with the wire going to the PID having a crimp connector (point #5) and screwed to the PID unit (point#6)

    Because there are two wires on the probe you then have 12 different connection points, each adding their own voltage drop to the total BEFORE it gets to the PID.

    There are male/female fittings made for thermocouples to reduce these errors, such as those you can "plug" the probe into the PID box.
    But, wiring the probe directly to the PID would certainly minimize these (12) connection point voltage drops and give better accuracy.

    Hope that made sense.

  2. #742
    Boolit Master

    Mike W1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural Sumner, IA
    Posts
    1,317
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    For what it's worth.........
    Every wire connection from your temperature probe will introduce a voltage drop at that connection point.
    Granted, we are down in the milli-volt range, but so is the output of the probe.
    These voltage drops will introduce a signal to the PID that is less than the actual value being outputted from the probe.
    An example would be if you wired the probe leads to a terminal block and then from the terminal block to the PID.

    So, from the probe you would have a crimp connector (point #1) on the wire that is then connected to the terminal block (point #2), then on the other side of the terminal block (point#3) is another crimp connector (point #4) with the wire going to the PID having a crimp connector (point #5) and screwed to the PID unit (point#6)

    Because there are two wires on the probe you then have 12 different connection points, each adding their own voltage drop to the total BEFORE it gets to the PID.

    There are male/female fittings made for thermocouples to reduce these errors, such as those you can "plug" the probe into the PID box.
    But, wiring the probe directly to the PID would certainly minimize these (12) connection point voltage drops and give better accuracy.

    Hope that made sense.
    Made sense to me. IF one insists on using a crimp connector, special ones are required anyhow for TC leads and they'd be a pain to find most places. Mine are even probably losing a bit having put the special male/female panel jacks in. But then it isn't too diffcult to use the offset feature on most PIDs and make the minor correction factor, if any.
    Mike

    Benefactor Member NRA
    Life Member Iowa Firearms Coalition
    US Army Vet

    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
    One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams 1826

  3. #743
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike W1 View Post
    Made sense to me. IF one insists on using a crimp connector, special ones are required anyhow for TC leads and they'd be a pain to find most places. Mine are even probably losing a bit having put the special male/female panel jacks in. But then it isn't too diffcult to use the offset feature on most PIDs and make the minor correction factor, if any.
    Good point, but I'm not sure doing that would be linear.
    That is, you make an offset adjustment at the PID to read 700 Deg. F (a reliable reference from the source would be in order here) but would it then be accurate at 100 Deg. F?
    I don't know.

  4. #744
    Boolit Master

    Mike W1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural Sumner, IA
    Posts
    1,317
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    Good point, but I'm not sure doing that would be linear.
    That is, you make an offset adjustment at the PID to read 700 Deg. F (a reliable reference from the source would be in order here) but would it then be accurate at 100 Deg. F?
    I don't know.
    Guess I don't KNOW if it'd be linear either but suspect it's definitely close enough for our purposes. I don't recall seeing more than a couple degrees difference at most when I've compared readings using my VOM at the same time with any of my 4 PID setups. FWIW
    Mike

    Benefactor Member NRA
    Life Member Iowa Firearms Coalition
    US Army Vet

    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
    One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams 1826

  5. #745
    Boolit Bub Coyote3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    46

    It’s alive!

    My version of “Johnny’s Loading Bench” controller. So far, it’s been very stable and easy to use. I should have built this years ago.

    Starting at 99 degrees with 10 lbs in the pot, takes a little over 12 minutes to hit 700 degrees. It overshoots to 714 and then undershoots to 699. After 20 minutes, it’s stable at 700 degrees. During mold fills it will rise to 711 degrees momentarily, but recovers very quickly.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D460A68A-7F8A-425A-96A4-64B237850084.jpeg 
Views:	64 
Size:	27.9 KB 
ID:	266887
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3A1C2956-47F2-43AB-8A4B-82C8BFFB15BB.jpeg 
Views:	63 
Size:	26.9 KB 
ID:	266888
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	792A98D2-9193-41CC-9B66-723C2E97041F.jpeg 
Views:	55 
Size:	20.9 KB 
ID:	266889

  6. #746
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    JAX, FL
    Posts
    1,228
    Quote Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
    Based on having read too many pages to keep it all straight, a little clarification is needed. I did not have enough cable to use from the female thermocouple connector I mounted on the box to the PID, so I used the closest gauge copper wire I had on hand. It is reading and working but do not at the moment had a thermometer to use for comparison.

    Have I committed a Bozo No-No by not using Type K specific wire? And if I did, where can I get just 12" of appropriate cable/wire?
    In an effort to correct this mis-step on 8/24 I bought a few feet of K-type wire from an eBay vendor and was looking forward to an imminent delivery tomorrow. Unfortunately my purchase originated in St Paul, Minnesota, and there it sits for 2 days, stuck in the possession of the St Paul, USPS Origin Facility, presumably waiting for sanity's return to the local masses...! Darn the luck!

    edit: 8/29 the package is on the move again.
    Last edited by oley55; 08-29-2020 at 01:28 PM.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  7. #747
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    11
    I have not read all 38 pages, I have a PID I put on my pot and it works, just not sure all the settings are right what are you guys using in the PID settings? Just those 3? Those 3 are the calculations used to determine/predict the temp and how much power to use. Thanks in advance

  8. #748
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Farmerville,Louisiana
    Posts
    1,357
    I just run auto tune and it holds within 5’ . That’s good enough for me.

  9. #749
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Grave of Liberty
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by Draftpick View Post
    I have not read all 38 pages, I have a PID I put on my pot and it works, just not sure all the settings are right what are you guys using in the PID settings? Just those 3? Those 3 are the calculations used to determine/predict the temp and how much power to use. Thanks in advance
    There are actually four values that keep the pot at the right temp
    Proportional - how far away from the set temp is the pot right now
    Integral - How far away from the set temp has the pot been
    Differential - how fast is the temperature moving toward or away from the set temp now

    Integral reset - how close to the set temp do you need to be before the controller calculates the integral function

    The reset function is used to overcome integrator windup when the process (heater) is at or near maximum but the temp is still far away from set point. If the integrator winds up then it will keep the temp going up until the amount of time the temperature is above setpoint is equal to that it spent below setpoint (an oversimplification).

    Fill the pot, let it heat up under PID control, shut it down and let the pot cool until it just starts to solidify. Turn the controller back on and start the autotune.
    If the pot overshoots more than 25-30 degrees on startup and the heater active light is on for a while when temperature is above setpoint then decrease the Integral reset (30% is a decent setting if the P gain is set correctly)

  10. #750
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by pastera View Post
    There are actually four values that keep the pot at the right temp
    Proportional - how far away from the set temp is the pot right now
    Integral - How far away from the set temp has the pot been
    Differential - how fast is the temperature moving toward or away from the set temp now

    Integral reset - how close to the set temp do you need to be before the controller calculates the integral function

    The reset function is used to overcome integrator windup when the process (heater) is at or near maximum but the temp is still far away from set point. If the integrator winds up then it will keep the temp going up until the amount of time the temperature is above setpoint is equal to that it spent below setpoint (an oversimplification).

    Fill the pot, let it heat up under PID control, shut it down and let the pot cool until it just starts to solidify. Turn the controller back on and start the autotune.
    If the pot overshoots more than 25-30 degrees on startup and the heater active light is on for a while when temperature is above setpoint then decrease the Integral reset (30% is a decent setting if the P gain is set correctly)
    Ok, thank you I will try that route.

  11. #751
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    35
    Just ordered parts to do this. Few weeks from now I'll be putting it in a lee 4-20

  12. #752
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    35
    Where did you get your box?

  13. #753
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    35
    The box to put all the parts in? I ordered from Amazon

  14. #754
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    191
    All this talk about temperature,, how about a quiz question on temperature?

    How about who can guess??

    This pic is of a thermocouple,,



    Slim Pickens used it in a 1964 movie he was in,,

    Can anyone guess what this thermocouple is made to fit??

  15. #755
    Boolit Mold TexPatriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMk View Post
    All this talk about temperature,, how about a quiz question on temperature?

    How about who can guess??

    This pic is of a thermocouple,,



    Slim Pickens used it in a 1964 movie he was in,,

    Can anyone guess what this thermocouple is made to fit??
    Thermonuclear device from Dr Strangelove?
    Love somebody today

  16. #756
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by TexPatriot View Post
    Thermonuclear device from Dr Strangelove?
    OOPs, I forgot to answer that,,

    That is one of the thermocouples out of the jet engines that powered the B52 bomber,,
    I was given the job of recreating the capability of manufacturing the thermocouple,
    when the GOVT decided to keep using the engine,, in 1980,,

    That probe has two thermocouples, one in each "window"
    That entire assembly was always hand made, all hand welded.
    That probe was part of a multi-thermocouple harness , with about 6 of those probes.

    That probe was directly in the burning fuel path inside the engine,, 1,600 degrees F,, if I remember correctly.

  17. #757
    Boolit Master slim1836's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Burleson, TX
    Posts
    2,120
    And all along I thought it was a thermocouple to a flux capacitor.

    Slim
    JUST GOTTA LOVE THIS JOINT.

  18. #758
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by slim1836 View Post
    And all along I thought it was a thermocouple to a flux capacitor.

    Slim


    This is the thermocouple to the flux capacitor,,



    Actually, that is one of the thermocouples that performs the same function as the one for the B52 engine,,
    except it is a "little" more modern. It goes in the GE CF6-80 engine.
    There are still two thermocouples, except they are completely encased.
    One thermocouple is at the end, inside the 1/8" diameter tube,
    the other is positioned at the location of the "hole" in the piece that is larger diameter, about 3/8" diameter.
    All building, and positioning, was done by X-ray,,, film X-ray, nothing digital.

    We had to assemble, shoot X-rays, wait for the film to develop,,, etc.

    The inner probe case is Inconel 718,, the outer probe is investment cast out of RENE 77,,

    All the welding that can be seen is 100% hand TIG welding.

  19. #759
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    11
    Used the auto tune and it worked great, got a 300 slugs casted up. Was nice to not worry what the temp was. Thank you!

  20. #760
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Missouri ridge runner
    Posts
    59
    Holy smokes, two days reading & now rereading it all to make it clear in my head.
    Thanks to all that posted this thread

Page 38 of 39 FirstFirst ... 282930313233343536373839 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check