Some .250 Sav help please....

[Guido4198]

I'm not a newbie to casting. I've had a lot of experience with handgun calibers, and rifles....30 cal. up to .458. That said...I'm just starting a development project for my Sav 99, and hoping someone here has already worked through this one and will share what they already know. The rifle is a 1941 manuf. all original Mod 99. The mold is Lyman 257464 hollow point, 90gn. Loverin, gas check style. Lyman .257 H & I sizer die. At this point some may wish to ask...how come all these variables have already been established..??
To answer...I inherited these items from my Dad. This is the one rifle/mould set I have not yet done anything with. To give you some idea of the vintage of it's last use...the sizer ( H&I) die was still packed full of the very old Lyman black..tar-like bullet lube Dad used many many years ago. First casting session with the Lyman mould went very well. My alloy for larger calibers has been 50/50 Pb/WW, air cooled. With that...the boolits are dropping out 91 gns. When attempting to run them through the .257 sizer with NRA/Alox lube...they are coming out with the entire length of the boolit "wiped"... the metal in the lube grooves is "smeared", holding little if any lube. Not a good result...Nothing like what I get with other boolits I produce. It appears the .257 is too small for the slugs coming out of that Lyman mold.
Sooooo....What is my best course at this point...I really want to keep as much of Dad's stuff in use as possible for sentimental reasons as much as anything. My goal here is to develop a mild 50-100 yd.(max.) plinking load that will allow me to enjoy this fine rifle with cast boolits like I did when I was a kid. For the record..reading some of his old cartridge boxes...I believe Dad's load was done with Hi-Vel 2 powder. I'm looking for other powder recomendations also if anyone has them to share.
Thanks Guys...
Don

[Phil]

Hi Don,

Is the sizing die perhaps one of the really old ones without the tapered lead-in? It sounds like what I used to get when using those dies back in the fifties and early sixties before they started tapering the die entrance. Also, you might want to check the diameter of the throat and size the bullets to match that.

As for powder, I'd try maybe some IMR4198 or 2400. HiVel 2 has been off the market for many years. I still have a few cans but use it sparingly.

Hang on, I'm sure more will chime in here with advice. Sounds like you have a sweet rig there. I've always liked the Savage 99 and the 250 cartridge.

Cheers,

Phil

[Bass Ackward]

<<What is my best course at this point...I really want to keep as much of Dad's stuff in use as possible for sentimental reasons as much as anything. My goal here is to develop a mild 50-100 yd.(max.) plinking load that will allow me to enjoy this fine rifle with cast boolits like I did when I was a kid.>>


Don,

If you were asking how to maximize accuracy or develop a hot load, there are several recommendations that would require you to do stuff. And if you have been reading any at all here, you know what those comments would be.

But since you are talking about a mild 100 yard plinker load, I say just clean out the old lube for some new. Water drop those Loverns using your mix. Seat that Lovern out as far as any limit to feed or rifling contact will allow. Use 17-20 grains of 4198 and get at it.

Are you still reading? Get to the bench.

[Bret4207]

It' also possible that old lube has hardened toomuch to move and is causing the "wiping" issue. I'd get a new sizer die, the new style has a tapered entry and thold had a sharp edge. Then size and enjoy. The 250 is a great cartridge. If you want to get rid of the mould let me know please.

[Larry Gibson]

Agree with the others that the sizer is probably the old style. Get a new sizer, I'd suggest a .258 or .259 (call Lyman, they used to have 'em). Assuming you're using a better lube like Javelina? For a load try between 7 and 9 gr of Unique; no filler or wad in fire formed cases. Velocity will be up in the 14-1500 fps. Also for solid nose bullets leave the HP stem out and drop a BB (yes the ones for the Daisy) into the mould before closing the sprue plate. I keep the BBs on top of the furnace and use tweesers to drop them in the mould. Makes for a nice "bronze point" bullet.

Larry Gibson

[grouch]

I load cast in .257, and have very good results with 10gr H110 and a 90gr bullet from CBE not far off a Loverin design. I suggest you get a Lee sizer(cheap and nose first) to keep your bullets more concentric with the driving bands, lubricate by hand with your choice of decent machine grease(I use Canadian Tire Moly Grease) and as a previous respondent said, water drop your bullets.

Hope this helps.
Grouch

[grumpy one]

I get smeared lube grooves when I size some of my bullets in a current model RCBS sizing die. It happens because of the amount I'm sizing the casting down. Specifically, my Lee C308-170-F has been lapped to give an as-cast diameter of 0.313 minimum dimension across the driving bands - which means at right angles to the joint line of the mould. It is about 0.315 parallell to the joint line. The bullet sizes to 0.312 perfectly, but for 0.311 it takes a bit of effort on the sizer and the bullet comes out with the driving bands smeared somewhat into the lube grooves adjacent to the mould joint line, where the casting diameter was largest. In case anyone considers it relevant, alloy is 3% tin, 5% antimony, water-dropped.

If the 25 caliber bullet comes out of the sizer with the driving bands smeared completely across the lube grooves, it is being sized down too far. Measure the as-cast diameter of the bullets, and compare it with the size of the sizing die. For a Loverin bullet design the lube grooves are pretty narrow, and consequently fairly easy to smear the bullet metal across. Most likely you can only size such bullets down by about .002 before you have lead-smearing problems, unless you use a brittle alloy such as linotype, which will most likely shear in the sizing die rather than smear. Since you are basically interested in plinking and perhaps informal targets, the brittleness of linotype may not be a problem to you, and you could consider using this or an even harder alloy. However be alert to the possibility that you just have too big a mould and too small a sizing die here - they may not be compatible with each other.

Since it appears that your father was using this same mould and sizing die, have you considered the possibility that he used linotype?


Geoff

[9.3X62AL]

I have a 1930-vintage Savage 99 in 250 Savage, and it dotes on NEI #20 (a 100 grain casting that looks like a 30 caliber RG-4 that got shrunk in the wash) sized at .258" atop 12.0 grains of 2400. A tuft of dacron doesn't seem to help too much, either way the load shoots wonderfully. I suspect a Savage 99 of that vintage has a 1-14" twist, which is VERY lead-friendly.....but not capable of stabilizing the 117-120 grain bullets available in this caliber.

I was wondering what the "as-cast" diameter of your boolits are--and whether you have mic'd the sized boolits to confirm actual diameter. I have the .258" die, which is a Lyman regular-production item--and a .260" die that I had Stilwell make for me (www.sizingdie.com). Our own Buckshot has been known to make a sizing die or two, also. Buckshot's craftsmanship beats Stilwell all hollow, but the Stilwell die does fine work. No difference in downrange performance in my rifle anyway--which may mean that I can't shoot well enough to discern same--but I digress.

[Guido4198]

I knew if I posted the question here, I'd get off to a much better start than if I took off to re-invent the wheel myself on this one.
My Lyman mold is throwing slugs that measure almost .261 at the widest point, just above the gas check...then .260 on the bands. My sizing die is definitely the "older design"...looks like I'm going to have to find something bigger than .257. I was able to clean the old black lube completely out of the dies...so that's not a problem. My current lube choice for my other rifle bullets is NRA/alox. I'll start with that one and see how it goes. Appreciate the load suggestions too... Looks like I have a winter project on my hands. We're fixin' to have our first real taste of winter down here real soon...looks like we might even have to turn off the central air.
Thanks Again...
Cheers,
Don

[cherok9878]

We're fixin' to

Guido, what part of the south are you from?

[9.3X62AL]

Guido--

The 250 Savage was a real delight for me, my rifle was immediately accurate with both j-words and the NEI boolit I listed above. I REALLY like this caliber, and may re-tube a Rem 788 to this chambering. The caliber lends itself well to the coyote-sized deer locally, and is a fine rat round as well.

[Guido4198]

I'm currently living on the S.E. coast of Florida where I get to enjoy offshore fishing. Prior years have involved a lot of time in Tennessee, and a few good years in both Ky, and Georgia.
I've killed two whitetail with this old 99,using 100gn. JSPs, plus a red fox and a coupla groundhogs years ago with 75 gn. JHPs.
This winter seems like a good time to get a decent cast load worked up for it using Dad's old mold. Incidentally...several yrs. back, when Remington first offered their short action Mod. 700 in left hand...I immediately ordered one with the idea that I would rebarrel it to 250 sav. with a faster twist, and shoot the 117-120 size bullets available. Well...long story short...I got the LH Rem. .308 short action...scoped it, shot some .308 loads through it, both cast and that other bullet.....killed a couple of Whitetail with THAT one...and decided NOT to do the conversion afterall. My current thinking on a 250 Sav. bolt gun is that I might get a Savage 110 LH short action, with the "accutrigger"..and get a gunsmith I know to do the rebarrel for me, but that project is a bit down the road I suspect.
Once again guys....thanks for the suggestions, and good words.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to all...
Cheers,
Don