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Thread: LeveRevoltuion Powder

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    LeveRevoltuion Powder

    Picked up a pound of the new Hodgdon LeveRevolution powder. I wanted to get a feel for this powder before attempting cast bullet loads. The suggested load on teh powder lable said 35.5 gr with the 160 gr FTX bullet. I didn't have any of those but wanted to see how that powder did with 150 gr jacketed. I've a supply of 150 gr Wonchester 30-30 PPs so I decided to work up a load with those. I started at 36 gr and worked up to 40 gr.

    FLS'd PMC cases were used with WLR primers A LFCD was used to apply the crimp. AOL was 2.53". The rifle used for the test is my M94AE which has a strain gauge attached for psi measurements via the M43 Oehler PBL. The test was ran at TRRC range in University Place, 240 ft ASL with the temp at 48 degrees.

    A 5 shot string of factory 160 LeveRevolution 160 gr FTX rounds were fired prior to the test to get a "reference" for velocity and the peak MAP (Maximum Average pressure). The factory ammo ran 2433 fps at 36,800 psi(M43). A previous test of that factory ammunition at 75 degrees gave 2452 fps at 37,800 psi(M43). The SAAMI MAP for the 30-30 is 42,000 psi. Given the temperature this morning I decided that a psi(M43) of 37,000 would be my MAP with the reloads.

    Bottom line is 40 gr of LeveRevolution under that 150 gr PP is a 100% density load. It topped out at 37,100 psi(M43) with a velocity of 2551 fps. Accuracy for the 5 shots was 2.1" with the apurture sights. The time/pressure curve was not as steep with considerably more time under the "rise" than with the factory load. The peak psi was reached at mid barrel length (12") with the reload vs 9" with the factory load. Standard factory 150/170 gr jacketed load hit peak psi at 7 - 8" of barrel. Yes I can measure where the peak psi occurs in the barrel.

    Some years back after reading Paco kelly's articles on loading for the newer M94s I developed a Paco 150 gr load using H335 in a similar M94AE with a 24" barrel. Loads were developed by watching primer back out and stopping when the primer was no longer backing out. This indicates there is then sufficient psi to be pushing the case back against the bolt. PO Ackley gives a very good description of this technique in his writings. I stopped 3 gr under what a current loading manual listed as max for that bullet at the tiem. Velocity was 2527 fps and accuracy was good. That load tested this morning revealed a MAP of 44,400 psi(M43), obviously over SAAMI's MAP for the 30-30.

    Bottom line here is that the LeveRevolution Powder is allowing a very real 2550 fps with 150 gr jacketed bullet at factory level psi's below the SAAMI MAP. That's pretty darn good to me and is a worth while powder thus far tested. I'm looking forward to some 311041s over this powder in this M94AE.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 05-04-2011 at 11:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master jmsj's Avatar
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    Larry,
    Thanks for the information. Why do you think the peak psi was reached in a shorter distance?
    I am very interested in hearing how this powder does with cast. Keep us posted.
    Thanks, jmsj

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Interesting stuff! I am glad to see it. Too often we buy products that dont live up to advertising.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    i can't wait till i can get some locally, it sounds like it has the makins of a good cast powder. thanks for the info larry.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by jmsj View Post
    Larry,
    Thanks for the information. Why do you think the peak psi was reached in a shorter distance?
    I am very interested in hearing how this powder does with cast. Keep us posted.
    Thanks, jmsj
    The peak pressure with the reloaded LeveRevolution powder actually was reached in a longer barrel distance; 12" vs 9" with the factory LeveRevolution vs 7-8" with normal powders and regular factory loads. My assumption is the shorter bearing surface and lighter weight 150 gr Winchester bullet is the reason. As the load worked up there was the classic steady increase of velocity and psi. The 40 gr load is a slight compression load with that Winchester bullet so getting more powder in isn't going to happen. I've another 10 rounds of the 40 gr load ready for a confirmation string tomorrow morning.

    Larry Gibson

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    I reckon that would be AR2206H, repackaged for Hodgson. I must check that out.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Four Fingers

    Don't know if that's the powder or not, mag articles all refer to it as a "specially blended" powder, whatever that means. If it quits raining I'm planning on shooting that confirmation string this afternoon. So far it seems a really good 30-30 powder for 150 and obviously 160 gr (the factory) bullets. Appears too slow for lighter bullets from the psi/es/sd of the velocity and psis in the the work up. Didn't start burning very efficiently at 38 gr with the 150 gr bullet. I'm anxious to see how it does under a heavier 311041.

    They also use this powder in the .30 Marlin Express and the .35 Rem LeveRevolution ammo. I don't think it will give me any better performance than 4895 in the .35 Rem with the 35-200-FN cast bullet out of my M91 rebarreled Mauser. However, I'm wondering what it might do in the 14" twist Palma .308W rifle with the 160 gr 311466. Right now I'm pushing that at 2600 fps with right at 41,000 psi using AA4350. Be interesting to see if LeveRevelution or perhaps the new SuperPerformance powder can equal that velocity with less psi with the same accuracy.

    May very well be a good application for LeveRevolution powder in the 7.62x39 with heavier 150 - 160 gr cast bullets in bolt actions(?).....probably in other cartridges too such as the .303, etc. because of the loading density and burning charactoristics of this powder......remains to be seen.

    Larry Gibson

  8. #8
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    Results of 10 shot confirmation string with LeveRevoltion powder and the 150 gr Winchester PP 30-30 bullet. Reminder; testing was done in a 24" barreled M94AE Black Shadow rifle.

    Before the results of the test load let's review factory 150 gr loads as tested in this same rifle. They range from 1975 fps with some older REM-UMCs up wards of 2301 fps with some new R-P and Federal 150 gr loads. The psi(M43) MAP of the 2300 fps loads was right at 38,800, pretty much where it should be given the temperature of the day and a commercial chamber/barrel used in testing. The old "Paco Kelly 150 gr load using H335 runs 2450 fps with the psi(M43) MAP at 40,200 with the highest psi at 42,500 psi. This would really be pushing the SAAMI MAP of 42,000 psi on a warmer day. Must be why I list it as a max load in my notes!

    The LeveRevoltion load of 40 gr under the 150 gr PP in PMC cases with a WLR primer ran right at 2540 fps with a psi(M43) MAP of 37,000. The 10 shot velocity SD was 22 fps and the ES was 45 fps. The psi(M43) SD was 800 and the ES was 1,800. That is very uniform. Accuracy BTW was 2.4" 10 shot group at 100 yards with my tired old eyes and the aperture M66 rear sit with a post front sight, about the best I can do any more.

    So for results we see a big performance gain of 240 fps over the fastest factory 150 gr ammunition and a 100 fps gain over the best reload with normal powder. All with less psi and better internal uniformity. The cost of the powder ($22.99/lb at the most expensive gunstore in town) is very comparable to any other newly manufactured canister powder available today. Certainly an excellent load with jacketed 150 gr bullets or the Hornady 160 gr FTX. I will definitely be trying this powder with 177 gr 311041s in the 30-30 and perhaps there might be some applications in the .308W.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 05-07-2011 at 09:30 AM.

  9. #9
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    Bill

    According to some the M94AEs are "stronger" than vintage M94s. I don't know about that. Hornady says the LeveRevolution ammo is safe in M94s and by my pressure measurements it certainly is well within SAAMI pressure specs (42,000 psi) for the 30-30 in those vintage rifles. I've pressure tested 8 different factory 150 and 170 gr loads plus the LeveRevolution factory ammunition. Two of the standard factory loads produced a higher psi MAP than the LeveRevolution ammo.

    What I did was to develop loads with 150 gr bullets using the LeveRevolution powder that equaled the factory LeveRevolutiion ammunition's psi. There is no data out there for other than the 160 FTX bullets so I was on my own developing the load. I pretty much was able to better the 160 FTX's velocity by 100 fps with the 150 gr bullets at the same psi. I've got 50 rounds loaded and I will test them in my own M94 Carbine. I got it for my 14th BD in April '61 at Sears so it was probably made in '60 and wouldn't take a chance on damaging it.

    Given the slow time pressure curve of the LeveRevolutuion powder in the 30-30 with the 150/160 gr jacketed bullets I have high hopes for it pushing my 311041s.

    Larry Gibson

  10. #10
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    Larry, Hodgdon is now listing a few loads for the Lever powder using non FTX bullets. Just go to there website and look in the "reloading data center" you have to search by caliber.
    I have enjoyed reviewing your results so far and I'm very curious to see what you find with the 311041.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 870TC View Post
    Larry, Hodgdon is now listing a few loads for the Lever powder using non FTX bullets. Just go to there website and look in the "reloading data center" you have to search by caliber.
    I have enjoyed reviewing your results so far and I'm very curious to see what you find with the 311041.
    Ah yes, they do now. I was going off a printed copy from when they first announced LeveRevolutions release. I see the max load listed is with the 150 gr bullet is with the base of the bullet at the base of the case neck. The 150 PPs base is shorter and allowed me to hit 40 gr at 100% loading density at just under the psi of the factory LeveRevolution rounds. That's why working up loads is essential when the componants used are different from the ones used in the manuals. Thanks for pointing the newer data out to me, I should have caught it myself

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 05-12-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  12. #12
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    My source at Hodgdon has been quite pleased with the new powders that they are selling.
    He says that they will be a significant improvement for some specific applications. Looks
    like Larry is verifying this for this powder. Very interesting, I wasn't able to get any tech
    info on HOW the new powders work, just that they would be doing things that older powders
    could not.

    Bill
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master grubbylabs's Avatar
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    Is there any data for this powder in a 444?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by grubbylabs View Post
    Is there any data for this powder in a 444?
    I don't see any. Might be the 444 has a wrong expansion ratio for it as does the 45-70. LeveRevolution powder is not listed for the 45-70 either.

    Larry Gibson

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    Boolit Buddy mustanggt's Avatar
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    I have been waiting with bated breath for Superformance and LeverEvolution to come out. Dummy me since I was able to buy factory rounds for it I made the logical conclusion that there would be load data for 45/70 and 30-06. You'd think it would at least be in 30-06 one of the most common calibers. I hope they will eventually come out with it. Anyone know?
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Excellent write up, thanks for the effort. I will be very interested in hearing what it does with 311041.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Weddle View Post
    So is it correct to say that LeveRevolution powder has a longer pressure curve? (like a dwell time)
    Instead of greater pressure in the chamber it uses the barrel length to keep pressure going and fps increases ?
    That is correct. Below are the M43 Pressure data from 2 tests; one with H335 and one with LeveRevolution, both with 150 gr bullets. Note the 100+ fps greater velocity at 3,000 less psi. You can also see the much slower time/pressure curve in the trace. The black tick mark is exit from barrel. Also the "Rise" is the measurement of the time/preesure in microseconds, note the much longer time numbers.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 08-07-2011 at 05:13 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    This is an excellent thread. Thank you Larry. I too am interested in seeing the results with cast bullets. Do you plan on trying any that are heavier than 170 gr., such as 180 or 190 gr.?

  19. #19
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    From my limited experience pressure testing it LeveRevolution appears to hit it's lower optimal burning psi around 35 -36, 000 psi. Since the 30-30 case with the 150 gr Winchester PP and the 160 Hornady FTX was at 100% plus loading density I have not found the high end optimal psi. I imagine LeveRevolution powder with either weight bullet will provid optimal velocity at SAAMI pai's in a 300 Savage M99. I will get around to answering the high end optimal psi in the .308W one of these days. That should prove interesting as i will seel what it will do with a 155 gr Palma in my 27.5" Palma rifle. However, my next scheduled test with leveRevolution powder is in the M94AE 30-30 with 311041s as soon as I get some cast.

    Larry Gibson

  20. #20
    Boolit Master GabbyM's Avatar
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    Larry if you'd like to test that with some RCBS 30-180-FN that weigh close to 200 grain I'd donate some to the test.

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